Arsen Kharatyan, one of the leaders of the Sksela and Hima youth movements was beaten today.
His sister, Lusine, says that someone phoned Arsen to arrange an interview. However, when Arsen Kharatyan reached the location for the interview there was no one. Nevertheless, he decided to wait and someone hit him from behind before proceeding to beat him.
Although his condition is considered satisfactory, Arsen Kharatyan is still hospitalized in the Grigor Lusavorich medical centre.
Arsen Torosyan was beaten not for his political ideology.
Hope he and his politneighborhood will not start to blame authorities in this.
Anyway,I wish him health.
I am confused — Arsen Torosyan or Arsen Kharatyan has been beaten?
Ruben Ter-Minassian: “Our cultural achievements and intellectual abilities may be superior to those of our neighbors, but without solidarity we are bound to be defeated, victimized, and exterminated.”
Tigran
It seems the you know the reason and the causes. At least you sound very assuring.
Can you please provide more information? Hopefully you can also name the criminals.
Have you been at the scene?
If not you will not then it will be a very legitimate assumption that either you are hiding the criminals or spreading baseless and biased rumours.
waiting for more details.
Hay
Pro-democracy activist Arsen KHARATYAN, not Torosyan, suffered this act of brutality Wednesday in Yerevan. A disgrace for the Armenian government and an offense to any advocate of civil society, let alone democracy.
This guy arsen is little annoying pest and deserved to get beat not because of his superficial wish for wanting more freedom in Armenia, but for supporting armenia’s number one enemy (levon) from coming back to power.
Anyone who confuses the freedom movement with Levon, deserves to get a good beating as uttering levon’s name indicates their hatred and enmity towards armenia.
Let this be a lesson for anyone wanting freedom in Armenia to not ever confuse the words freedom with Levon. Anyone advocating freedom in Armenia must clearly distance themselves from Levon or be held responsible for their hostile stance against Armenia.
[…] The Armenian Observer reports that a pro-opposition youth activist was yesterday beaten in Yerevan, the Armenian capital. Arsen Kharatyan was called for an interview, but when he arrived at the location for the meeting he was instead attacked from behind. Unzipped comments on speculation that the beating was probably connected to Kharatyan's political activities and provides a more comprehensive account of the incident. Posted by Onnik Krikorian Share This […]
I don’t know the guy and the circumstances of the incident. But if it is done for his political convictions there should be only one reaction from both his political supporters and determined opponents:
“Physical violence against political ideas is absolutely unacceptable and completely condemnable!” Period.
Whether Kharatyan is pro-opposition or not, it doesn’t matter. Violence is not the answer and as this attack is most likely connected to his political activities it should be condemned by everyone. Taking matters into your own hands and beating people has unfortunately become the main way dealing with disputes here and needs to stop now. Even though I do not agree with Kharatyan’s activities, I condemn the attack and expect those responsible to be found, arrested and prosecuted.
Armen, your post demonstrates why we shouldn’t really hope to have democracy anytime soon in Armenia. It’s because of so many people, who think that others could and, even worse, should be beaten, jailed, killed just because of their political views.
I can’t stand neither LTP nor his politics, but claiming that people who do support him deserve to be beaten is why the country is where it is. Come on, wake up! Get civilized!
I condemn the trials to express all what was happened as a political action.
Without waiting of police investigation.
Tigran, I think by virtue of the fact that Kharatyan was called to meet someone who identified themselves as a journalist but there was an attack instead of an interview kind of implies that it was a premeditated assault on someone for their political activities. Of course, I agree that this is not 100 percent certain, but it seems to be the most likely possibility.
However. I would also say that there is nothing to indicate this is a premeditated attack on the order of the authorities. It’s as likely — if not more so — that these were government supporters. That doesn’t justify it, but I would definitely express caution at labeling the state responsible. However, if the police make no effort to find the culprits, or if they do but don’t take appropriate action, then there is the issue of impunity and so on.
Onik
The worst thing is that nowadays every streetfight is considered as political.
During the election company some of supporters of LTP(young hnchak guy) were beaten. Have you any news from these cases? Why LTP supporters keep silence about theses cases? Why all of those was usually happening day before LTP meetings in Freedom Square.
Questions,questions,questions…..
I condemn beating od anyone,but let’s wait investigation result.
Tigran, I also suspect that the Hnchak guy was also some local guys who got angry at the (racist) political propaganda that I think he was handing out.
BTW: What did happen to that case? Again, I think the issue is was anyone arrested or investigated and what finally happened?
I have another point of view.
Yes,authorities are bad,they kill democracy,violate human rights.
But.
Why LTP supporters are so sclerotic. Why they are not consequent? Why they are not fighting for their supporters till the end? Have you read or heard anything about these cases from their side?
What the reason of moderation?
Onnik
I have another point of view.
Yes,authorities are bad,they kill democracy,violate human rights.
But.
Why LTP supporters are so sclerotic. Why they are not consequent? Why they are not fighting for their supporters till the end? Have you read or heard anything about these cases from their side?
“This guy arsen is little annoying pest and deserved to get beat not because of his superficial wish for wanting more freedom in Armenia, but for supporting armenia’s number one enemy (levon) from coming back to power.”
armen, exactly! just a few minor edits and we can close the door on history and move forward:
“These Armenians are little annoying pests and deserved to get beat not because
of their superficial wish for wanting more freedom in Ottoman Turkey, but for
supporting turkey’s number one enemy (dasnaks serving themselves and russia)
from coming back to power.”
nice work armen – you’ve helped us see the reasoning behind hate. why stop with arsen, there are many little annoying pests…right?
I second the warning that ace refers to above. Sadly, we have seen lots of it unchecked in Armenia the past few months. Whether it is calling for someone to get beaten because he supports anti-Armenian Levon, or because a list of undesirables are named as Non-Armenians because they support the government. This kind of labeling is uncalled for. I wish that people would condone such attitudes rather than endorse it with further enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend motivation. It is too bad that this kinds of rhetoric became the playing field that Levon dragged the election fight to, and that evidently his supporters now suffer some of the consequences of.
thanks AH. but let’s not forget ltp is SS and ss is LTP. they might have had a soap opera drama over who will get to rape the country primarily and who will get to pretend to be opposition but they are one in the same. focusing on ltp only plays into passive submission to ss.
we should be proud of Arsen who is doing something instead of sitting back only ‘blogging’ about it obviously his aims are worthy, we should be joining him and talking about pulling the group away from the psuedo-opposition leaders and towards a unified genuine opposition. Armenains love to hate each other and i’ll repeat the quote above:
“Our cultural achievements and intellectual abilities may be superior to those of our neighbors, but without solidarity we are bound to be defeated, victimized, and exterminated.”
let me edit myself: Armenians love to CRITICIZE each other (generally while offering no constructive alternatives). hate is too strong, though it sure seems appropriate sometimes…
OK ace – there may be lots of similarities between SS and LTP, but I think there are significant differences too. And I brought up the issue above to highlight that campaigning on hate and infusing open hatred into the environment is bound to lower the threshold for losing one’s self-control and bound to increase hate-inspired actions.
what’s the alternative? forget ltp for a minute. let’s say we had a real genuine opposition candidate, true of heart, etc. etc: What could that candidate say that wouldn’t be hate filled toward a bunch of barbarians that will never listen to morals or reason? Do you think for a minute that if ltp hadn’t got into this race and ss won as expected, that armenia would gradually move toward real progress? you are only lying to yourself.
do you ever wonder why no one has come into or out of the original karabagh committee. or why the same national players have always stayed out of jail regardless of who was president? what happened to the kbg archives that would have shown all of these people for who they really are? if rk and ss have so much real dirt on ltp, where is it?? we’ll never hear it because it’s their dirt too. this is the same group regardless of infighting.
but again, instead of forging a real opposition with real people over the last two months, we only bicker about irrelevant ‘differences’ between thugs and murderers.
“Do you think for a minute that if ltp hadn’t got into this race and ss won as expected, that armenia would gradually move toward real progress?”
Actually, I disagree with this argument in that I think most agree that LTP (let’s leave aside if his presidency represented something net positive or negative) could not bring anything new to the table. What he has done, he has done. What he could do, he did.
I agree with your 2nd paragraph above that all of them have juicy dirt on each other, and for that reason, none of it will come out. The keeping closed of the archives was a LTP decision, continued by RK, and probably will continue under SS.
So, moving on to your point, I think the introduction of the former-corpse LTP back into the game was precisely to prevent a real opposition force from coalescing. This will happen with time, and when enough people don’t fall for the quick-fix milk and honey that was effectively promised by LTP. No free lunch. People must be ready to work to create a better paradigm.
agreed. so it will be people like Arsen who will help get the population there – people that do something extra to break the circle. here he may be naively believing in ltp, but we can do 2 things: find fault and blame. or join him (or others) and help guide with our own input. with love and compassion against an enemy we can rightfully despise.
there is absolutely no ideology, action, philosophy, book, idea, religion, nation, government, or person who we could not sit back and find fault in. that’s the easy part. if we care so much then we get off our internet and work with those that are on the right path.
The keeping closed of the archives was a LTP decision, continued by RK, and probably will continue under SS.
because they are all russian operatives and all of this an elaborate dance…
Bravo, ace. At last, someone has spoken from my heart.
A couple of words for those who blindly support or scold either of the ltp or ss camps: you just deepen the civil divide, a goal that’s been set up by supranational manipulating powers in order to weaken Armenia by means of bringing into the fore rulers like ltp, rk, or ss, ALL of whom have links with secret societies and/or foreign intelligent agencies. Calm down and be wise for the sake of Armenia and its long-anguished people.
it’s unfortunate that violence was used against Arsen, however one should not expect anything less in current Armenia when some people actively support a criminal for presidency who created this vote rigging system in Armenia, and are now all of the sudden crying for freedom.
Arsen and his likes who support and utter Levon’s name along with their freedom chants, should learn to distinguish the two and publicly renounce Levon in order to give themselves some credibility for a freedom struggle.
Anahit, while I understand your argument although don’t agree with it, it should be pointed out that the same logic is used by some in the opposition about government supporters.
Basically, justification of the use of violence is subjective. Everybody is right, everybody else is wrong. There is no excuse, period. That is, when the most important thing is for there to be the rule of law in Armenia.
Anyway, like I said, I don’t agree with Arsen’s support for Ter-Petrossian and actually think Hima’s activities somewhat insignificant and only noticeable by the fact that it’s all rather pretentious.
On the other hand, I don’t like Baze and MIAK, but does that mean someone can now go and beat their members up (actually Noyan Tapan’s David Petrossian physically assaulted two MIAK members during the election)?
Anyway, the answer to that somewhat rhetorical question is no. However, what matters is whether or not those responsible are found and prosecuted. Then there’s also the issue of whether judgement is passed down fairly or if it’s based on what political links those involved have.
Instead, anyone guilty of a crime needs to be punished. Full stop. Politics should not enter into it. There is the rule of law and then there is criminality and anarchy [in the negative connotation of the word 😉 ).
Anahit, what do you actively support? anything other than passiveness? go ahead and rage against ltp, but where’s your outrage on the people currently raping you? sheep…
http://www.osce . org/documents/html/pdftohtml/31397_en.pdf.html
final report from oidhr. they forget to mention our tribal barbarism or general propensity toward self destruction, but otherwise its accurate.
.osce.org/documents/html/pdftohtml/31397_en.pdf.html
final report from oidhr. they forget to mention our tribal barbarism or general propensity toward self destruction, but otherwise its accurate.
Via Bekaisa
One of the Leaders of the Armenian Democratic Youth Attacked and Severely Injured on Way to Major Youth Rally
What is problematic is that some people condone the violence against Arsen, Mikayel Danielyan and others by saying or implying that they somehow ‘deserved’ it by daring to voice an opinion. This clearly shows that the regime’s attempt at instilling the vakhi mtnolort is working to perfection — don’t speak up or else you will be beaten.
As for Tigran Kocharyan’s comment //I condemn beating od anyone,but let’s wait investigation result.//
Who exactly is going to investigate? The same General Prosecutor who has done such a stellar job on every other case? Get real.
OK Mayranoush – What else do you suggest? Of course, it should be investigated and the perpetrators brought to justice. I don’t think many people think anyone deserves to be beaten: the issue is that those who have increased the hate and venom in the air should not be surprised when actions, retaliations etc take place. As Onnik and others have pointed out, such beatings date back a long time, sadly. Levon created a nasty precedent during his tenure for such beatings. Now it is difficult for many to stand for him after all the filth he created during his reign and re-injected into the air during his election run.
AH, Just because somethings happened in the past does not mean we should condone them or that that is any sort of excuse for such barbaric acts. For example, slavery was legal in the US in the 1800s, so if someone has a slave today should we excuse them and say, ‘such actions date back a long time, sadly’ as you have written? Should we not say that time has moved on and we should no longer tolerate such things??
And if you think Levon was so terrible, and presumably the current authorities are much better, then can you explain why after being in power for 10 years they are still practicing the ‘beatings which date back a long time’?
There must come a time when such acts are no longer tolerated and not excused for whatever reason. And as for investigations, I am ALL FOR THEM. I simply have a lack of faith in the current judicial system in Armenia.
This is the president of Armenia speaking
” GIVE ME ALL YOUR MONEY “
Mayranoush – I think it is presumptuous to pin the beatings on the authorities. While you may be confident that they are “still practicing the beatings” I think this is not such a proper claim. I hope that the perpetrators are brought to justice. Faith in the judicial system comes from people working hard to demand such justice; not from spreading hatred and disregard for all state institutions. The sooner we develop an opposition more interested in the former than the latter, the faster things will change for the better.
AH, I admire your optimism…however pollyanish you may sound. I wish you success in ‘working hard to demand such justice’ and I sincerely hope you will succeed. But know that without recognizing the faults of any system, you can NEVER find solutions to its problems.
In democracies it is common practice to be able to criticize the government and to demand accountable behaviour from the state institutions. Raising questions about the probity of Armenia’s judicial system is a fair point. It is not, ‘spreading hatred and disregard’. Are you intellectually incapable of understanding the difference between fair criticism and ‘spreading hatred’ or are you simply reluctant to do so?
I am touched by option 2 in your question below.
Democracies work when people work toward improving them, not by being complacent, and not by undermining them.
I note, however, the difference, between criticizing government and demanding justice: two different things.
For the all young independent people.
UKRAINIAN REVOLUTIONARY TEACHES LESSONS TO L. TER-PETROSYAN
Judging by all, L. Ter-Petrosyan is not going to calm down as he is most probably preparing for the second stage of the revolutionary process.
In particular, we have information that on May 26 L. Ter-Petrosyan organized a reception in his private residence in honor of some Dmirtry Potekhin. The name doesn¡¯t say anything to the Armenian society, but this personality is now perceived as a ¡°political lifebuoy¡± for L. Ter-Petrosyan and his proponents. It isn¡¯t as though this Ukrainian young man were going to guide L. Ter-Petrosyan¡¯s team, enriching its tactical ¡°arsenal¡±. And who is Potekhin and why did the meeting with his participation acquire such a great importance?
D. Potekhin is one of the most outstanding ideologists and coordinators of the Ukrainian ¡°orange¡± revolution, as well as Head of the so-called ¡°European Strategy Group¡± analytical center; he also leads the movement ¡°§±§à§â§Ñ¡± and, together with the leaders of ¡°§°§ä§á§à§â¡± organization, he was also one of the advisors of the Georgian ¡°Kmara¡± organization.
That¡¯s to say, he is one of the chief players of the Ukrainian ¡°orange¡± revolution, as well as one of the leaders of the political group with the help of which Ukraine is now making rapid steps towards integration to NATO.
Now he has come to Armenia to instruct L. Ter-Petrosyan how to wash the brains of young people and set up 3-4 youth groups or, as the say, ¡°youth movements¡± which should grow like mushrooms after rain. They practically consist of the same people but bear different names, such as ¡°Begins¡±, ¡°Now¡±, ¡°Get up¡±, ¡°We¡± etc.
It should be noted that before leaving for the United States (May 10-12, 2008), David Shahnazaryan – L. Ter-Petrosyan¡¯s representative, visited Georgia with the purpose of receiving a political orientation, and there, he had a meeting with such key figures of the Georgian revolution as Ilvlian Khaindrava, Nougzar Gogorishvili, Georg§Ö Khoutsishvili, Vakhtang Kolbaya, Arnold Stepanyan and last but not the least, Ukrainian representatives Dmitry Potekhin and his assistant Alexandra Delemenchouk. The meeting took place in one of the local revolutionary headquarters operating under the financial support of ¡°Soros¡± foundation.
According to available information, the participants of the meeting held in Tbilisi on May 10 made a decision that D. Potekhin and his group should submit to the ¡°center of colored revolutions¡± a relevant report on Armenia and receive instructions from there for initiating certain activities in our country.
After the meeting, D. Shahnazaryan returned to Armenia and informed L. Ter-Petrosyan of the results.
By the instruction of the latter, D. Shahnazaryan put through L. Zourabyan and D. Potekhin with each other. D. Potekhin left Tbilisi for Ukraine and, after submitting relevant reports, instructed him from one of the colored revolution centers of Warsaw to go to Armenia and initiate the process.
On May 25, D. Potekhin and his assistant Alexandra Demenchouk left Kiev for Tbilisi and, with the help of Arnold Stepanyan, Head of ¡°Multi-National Georgia¡± organization (which receives funding from ¡°Soros¡±), got in touch with L. Zourabyan, LTP¡¯s representative.
A day later, on May 26, the vanguards arrived in Armenia. According to our information, they first met with L. Zourabyan and Arman Mousinyan and last but not the least, had a t¨ºte-¨¤-t¨ºte in L. Ter-Petrosyan¡¯s private residence.
On the same day after the confidential meeting, they crossed the Armenian-Georgian border in a car with darkened windows and returned to Tbilisi.
The visit bore a strictly practical and pragmatic character. As to what agreements were achieved in the meeting between L. Ter-Petrosyan and D. Potekhin, is unknown even to the people who have the closest ties with the ex-President. However, based on available information, it is possible to have an idea as to what priority Dima Potekhin has established for the Armenian opposition. That¡¯s to say, to organize campaigns with the participation of small groups of individuals around issues arousing concern in society, with the purpose of undermining the law enforcement system and the authorities.
For instance, the groups consisting of 25-30 people should dress up and hold 3 campaigns: send SMS messages to appoint a meeting near one of the crowded metro stations, dress up like prisoners and chant the following words for an hour, ¡°We protest against the President; we feel as though we were prisoners, and our country had turned into a prison¡± etc.
Dressed up in white T-shirts, the same group shall, within the same day, organize an environmental campaign and then, choose another dressing and hold another campaign for increasing the pensions and so on and so forth. This advisory package was partially transferred to L. Ter-Petrosyan¡¯s team by the Ukrainian and Georgian teachers back in mid-February and it was immediately put into practice as a basis.
After following L. Ter-Petrosyan¡¯s activities for two days consecutively, any citizen, especially a journalist, will understand that they are complying with the instructions of their foreign teacher. And such instructions will become more diverse and aggressive in the near future, and their funding will increase thus becoming permanent. This is why one of the godfathers of the Ukrainian orange revolution arrived in Armenia.
L. Ter-Petrosyan¡¯s team was instructed to set up 70-100 similar groups consisting of 25-30 people. This is only a small part of the ¡°instructions¡± of the political technologists. The main series of events is to be organized in the period between June and August, and the result is anticipated in September in the form of a revolutionary situation.
Let¡¯s also add that right after the meeting L. Zourabyan was sent to Moscow on a two-day unscheduled visit, by the instruction of L. Ter-Petrosyan. According to our information, he had a meeting with the individuals recommended by D. Potekhin; these people are to organize the flow of the required financial resources to Armenia.
We can definitely say it will fail at the second stage as well, but everybody will suffer losses during the whole process, and the country will, for some period of time, incur the damages caused by the ¡°colored revolutions¡±.
http://www.armtown.com/news/en/has/20080531/260183729/
Tigran, interesting information and I think something was underway as long ago as before the 2007 parliamentary election with Sksela, but regardless, it doesn’t justify beating Kharatyan. Besides, it’s the last thing the government needs when the international community is keeping a closer eye on it than normal. Regardless, all violence should be deplored and condemned — regardless of who it is directed against and why.
And anyway, holding demonstrations or forming youth movements isn’t illegal and nor can that to be condemned. Instead, the government should address the issues which might lead to others joining such actions and make sure that such matters of public concern are not hijacked for less than genuine purposes. That’s all, really.
If the government can address these issues and properly communicate its intent to society there is nothing to fear. Otherwise, of course the opposition will use every means at its disposal to fight the government and such things are not illegal (yet… ;-)) Of course, a clandestine flow of money from foreign sources into finance this is.
However, it has to be proved.
Very primitive article by Hayots Askharh, because all the flash-mobs mentioned in this article and supposed by the author to be organized very soon were already organized by HIMA and other groups before probable visit of so-called Potekhin. This kind of articles make me think that armenian authorities could not made our law machinery think that they are fiting against MOSSAD. Now our authorities are trying to inspire our law machinery that HIMA and etc is the result of international secret deal.
This is very funny…
The expiration date on this kind of propaganda writing was around Krushchev’s time for the rest of the world–cue the spooky music and lightning in the background. I really enjoyed this special nugget:
//On the same day after the confidential meeting, they crossed the Armenian-Georgian border in a car with darkened windows.// Sounds like every Armenian government officlal’s car, no???
Anyway, it’s an insult to young Armenians to say that they can be “brainwashed” and can’t think on their own, although anyone who would take this warmed-over ’50s Pravda garbage seriously might be guilty of just that themselves.
And as for “undermining the law enforcement system,” the government has certainly done a great job all by itself. And now, they’ll be getting twice as much salary for their efforts–mission accomplished!!!!
But why, I wonder, was this article attached to “Arsen Kharatyan Beaten” unless it was meant to somehow justify the beating? Also why the immediate statement that “he was not beaten for his political ideology.” You can only know that for sure if you know who beat him up, so what gives??
Ani, I think it’s very easy to brainwash everyone here and indeed, there has been little sign of tolerating any free discussion at all. If you’re not with one side you’re labelled a traitor, a KGB/CIA/MI5 operative, or in the pay of this party or another. Both sides are guilty of this.
In order for people — young and old — to make informed decisions you need to be able to voice your opinion without fear of being intimidated, threatened, libeled and god knows what else. In fact, both sides use the same tactics.
It’s why I consider neither democratic or to do anything other than pump out partisan propaganda and misinformation and yes, the ultimate goal is brainwashing. Anyway, I do however agree with you that regardless of whether the article is correct or not, it does not justify the attack on Kharatian.
It’s very simple. There is no room for violence. There should only be the rule of law. Yes, naive perhaps, but it’s what this country sorely needs and it has to protect everybody whatever side of the political divide they’re on.
Onnik and Ani
This guy Potekhin finnaly burnt himself by appearing in my blog:)