Georgia’s President Mikheil Saakashvili thought he had picked the perfect time to launch a massive attack against the peaceful population of its breakaway region of South Ossetia and Russian peacekeeping forces last night – the world would be preoccupied with the grand opening ceremony of the 2008 Olympic games in Beijing, he thought, who would care about the Georgian attempts at Genocide in it’s own territory, right? Need I remind everyone, that even in old Greece wars were halted for the duration of the Olympic games not to overshadow the sacred meaning of the grand tournament? Need I qualify Saakashvili’s ‘Blitz Krig’ immoral, to say the least? And will this dumb macho ever understand, that being the president of Georgia is serious business, not games? I mean – one has to be a complete idiot to think, that:
- an outgoing US President, a Republican facing a democratic majority in US Parliament will have the political resources to risk a new war after horrors of Iraq;
- NATO – alliance of countries with stagnating and fuel hungry economies, who have just started to breathe freely because the oil prices have gone down a little bit, will engage in anything against the world’s largest oil and gas exporter, which will surely kick up the energy prices once again and finally kill their economies;
- that if Russia gets really angry and decides to declare South Ossetia an independent country, UN will be able to do anything, given the Kosovo precedent and the fact that Russia is already quite sick and tired of UN trying to dictate things to it.
Now we have what we have – 1400 reported (unconfirmed) civilian deaths, 10 Russian peacekeepers killed and 30 wounded, heavy fighting on the territory of South Ossetia, Russian tanks and jets entering Georgian territory and according to Georgian claims bombing their military and civilian targets. There are no figures of losses from the Georgian side, but clearly, such an operation will cost them dearly. Saakashvili has already called back the Georgian contingent of 2000 from Iraq and has announced plans of declaring martial law and calling reserves to arms. A full scale war is looming and it doesn’t look like Georgia’s getting any help from anywhere. US President spoke of supporting Georgia’s territorial integrity – but will he dare to translate words into action, given the points I highlighted above? Hardly.
The UN Security Council met late last night only to reveal one more miscalculation of Mr. Saakashvili – with wourld leaders away in Beijing, away from their consultants and intelligence reports, the accusations of Georgian envoy were counterbalanced by the Russian envoy’s equally valid points and counteraccusations, so the Council broke on promise to meet again this morning, not that any results are to be expected anyway.
Meanwhile, we – Armenians have Azerbaijan to worry about – Ilham Aliyev might just decide to take advantage of general disorder in South Caucasus and attempt an attack on Nagorno Karabakh. Armenia’s defence Minister Seyran Ohanyan was in Artaskh yesterday – clearly not a simple sightseeing mission.
There is full coverage of what’s being said in the blogosphere on Global Voices Online:
http://globalvoicesonline.org/-/world/central-asia-caucasus/georgia/
Both Reuters and The New York Times are also using our material.
http://topics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/08/from-global-voices-online-south-ossetia-update/
[…] Armenian Observer says that the latest military confrontation between Russia and Georgia was a miscalculation by the G…, Mikhail Saakashvili. The blog also says that with a defacto state of war waging in Armenia's […]
Thanks for the links, Onnik. There is also excellent coverage on http://blog.oneworld.am, http://ahousekeeper.livejournal.com, http://uzogh.livejournal.com, http://pigh.livejournal.com, http://kornelij.livejournal.com and elsewhere on the Armenian blogosphere. We’re surely taking the developments in the neighboring country very seriously.
Yeah, I’ve linked to ahousekeepers blog and stated it was being updated on a previous GV post. I’ve also asked someone here to monitor the Live Journal blogs (but not just the Armenian ones) for GV, but don’t know if he’s agreed or not. Let’s see.
However, if anyone is interested (Kornelij? Observer? Whoever) contact me. Like I said, the GV stuff is also now going out via Reuters and The New York Times so in addition to GV itself, it will get huge exposure.
I’m out in Gyumri, blogging from my mobile phone and no Internet access – had to drive downtown to an internet cafe to post this one entry I did. I would love to have the possibility to translate some bits and pieces – but it seems technically impossible. Sorry 🙁
Don’t worry. Global Voices’ Eastern Europe Editor has done a marvelous post:
Georgia, Russia: Cyrillic Bloggers React to the Conflict in South Ossetia
http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/08/09/georgia-russia-cyrillic-bloggers-react-to-the-conflict-in-south-ossetia/
Observer, normally I find you really unbiased, but not this time. Russia is sitting in South Ossetia “peace keeping” and it is bombing Georgian targets as well. I’m not trying to defend Russia, but there are 2 sides to this, to be sure!
Where’s GV’s Georgian language blog coverage? My pals in Georgia now and reading and (poorly) translating them. GV is summarizing English and Russian language blogs. So what? Not exactly fair coverage.
defend Russia = defend Georgia. 🙂
US Embassy is officially evacuating Americans.
Katy, when I was in Tbilisi for the BarCamp there I asked Georgian bloggers if they would be GV authors. Some expressed an interest, but didn’t follow through.
So, your accusation of bias is not fair. Basically, Global Voices Online is there for them if they want and if I go up in the next few days I will make damn sure I push them again.
In the meantime, however, tell your Georgian friends that they have an outlet at Global Voices Online. Also, please post some links to their translations.
I’m more than happy to use their material. The issue is not bias, but rather knowing who is out their willing to write and where they are.
As I said, I tried to get both Georgian and Azerbaijani bloggers to become authors for Global Voices, but interest was not followed through.
Besides, I would also say that our coverage is balanced in that we provide different points of views, including from Georgia and South Ossetia as well as outside.
But yes, some stuff from Georgia would be welcomed so if you’re upset about the situation, please help us in rectifying it.
Thanks.
But thanks for pushing me. Have just sent an email to the organizer of the Tbilisi BarCamp asking about bloggers up there although my original intention was to find them on the ground if I go up there in the next few days. Still, any possible authors or sources are greatly appreciated.
Well, all my pals in GE right now are being evacuated, but once they are down here in Yerevan, I’ll ask them.
Most of them are now in some shock that they’re having to move, so we’ll see what happens.
I don’t know how actively GV tried to recruit bloggers, but according to my researcher friends, there is quite an active Georgian-language blogosphere and they all just stumbled upon it.
Incidentally, when I was up in Georgia I was told that there are not many Georgian-language blogs, but anyway, seems kind of strange to accuse Global Voices Online when we’re reliant on authors and when, for example, most of the blogs in Armenia are either in Armenian or Russian, but if they’re by Armenians, does it matter? Still, if there are any good posts in Georgian on forums (I’ve heard these are more popular) I’ll gladly get a GV account set up for someone to translate and post so others can read. I’m surprised you just didn’t tell your friends to contact us, but anyway.
As for the U.S. Embassy evacuating American citizens, what’s the source. There’s nothing on the US Embassy web site in Georgia yet, and two American friends working up there (one with Peace Corps, the other with an international organization) haven’t been advised yet. If this is the case they’d obviously like to know. So far the US Embassy warden message for today advises against travel to Gori and anywhere near South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
Interestingly, if they are evacuated would this mean via Armenia, Azerbaijan or both?
Well, I’m glad to hear about the Georgian-language blogging scene, but that was not what was reported to me in June up in Tbilisi when actually, very few bloggers turned up. However, the offer still stands.
And believe me, I ACTIVELY tried to recruit both Georgian and Azerbaijani bloggers when I was there. Thing is, as is the case here and in other regions, people express an interest, but then don’t follow through.
As I said, if I go up there, it was one of the main things I was intending to do. And thanks for the info about the evacuation. I’ll inform my friends because they haven’t been told anything yet.
However, in the meantime, you say there’s a lot of activity. Please post some links and we’ll see what we can do. Without the links, though, we can’t do anything — and that’s also how Global Voices Online works. People sending us stuff.
Katy, perhaps you’re right, a got emotional – but let’s talk about facts we know, not bias. We know Georgia has launched a massive military operation against peaceful population, is there any reliable source that rejects this? And if so – what words do I use to describe that idiot Georgian president?
Katy, isn’t Russia bombing Georgian targets because Georgia bombed the hell out of Tskhinvali first? Didn’t Georgia start this? I don’t follow this very closely, so i may be wrong. Please correct me if i am wrong. I don’t mean to offend anyone, I am just asking a question.
Also, I agree with Observer that it was dumb of Saakashvili to start this mess knowing full well that Russia would respond. The is no bias in saying this
Sorry, meant to say “ENGLISH or Russian.”
However, the same point still stands. Firstly, Global Voices is reliant on source material and authors who then submit for editing to a Regional Editor. Secondly, We want to hear ALL voices…
Armenians, Georgians, Russians, people in Ossetia, people in Georgia, and also specialists and normal people with a take on matters outside. I tried for Georgians in June, but few Georgian bloggers showed up to the BarCamp and interest from those that did was not followed through with.
Same with Azerbaijan and also Armenia. Even so, I am still constantly trying to push people to do so, and am now waiting to hear about whether I shall be covering the situation in Georgia on the ground when I’ll also be making damn sure I meet with Georgian bloggers, although again, I suspect most activity is still on the forums (as was told to me by Georgian bloggers in June).
Yeah, but before August 7, what was happening in South Ossetia? I was in Tbilisi last weekend and I heard that the South Ossetians were “starting it” so to speak.
On the Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_South_Ossetia_(2008) under timeline it says:
“Beginning late on 1 August, intense fighting began between Georgian troops and paramilitary soldiers of South Ossetia causing the deaths of six people and the injuries of twenty-one others. Both sides accused the other of commencing the fighting.[25]”
So, who started it, right? Who knows!
I’m being told that there is no evacuation, just a “consolidation relief zone,” whatever that means…
Remember that people with evacuation insurance get evacuated first… Peace Corps, Fulbrighters, etc…
If your friends don’t have such insurance, they may not get called onto the bus until those with insurance are on.
All I know is that we have a number of houseguests coming.
“Beginning late on 1 August, intense fighting began between Georgian troops and paramilitary soldiers of South Ossetia causing the deaths of six people and the injuries of twenty-one others. Both sides accused the other of commencing the fighting.[25]”
This is from the Wikipedia page (which somehow I can’t link to) on the conflict. Who knows who started it?
One of them is a Peace Corps Volunteer, but he might not have been told yet, I guess. However, I would expect some kind of news on this matter at least on the U.S. Embassy in Georgia web site, and there’s none. Still, I don’t doubt that some people might have chosen to leave although as Marneuli was also attacked, I would also say it might be better to get people out now if they’re going to sent to Armenia. Anyway, if you find any official information on this please post a link so we can report it. Thanks.
This is a message I literally just received from an American in Tbilisi. He’s ex-Peace Corps in Georgia now working for a major international organization so should be in the loop.
I know 3 people who are on a bus right now that they didn’t pay for and they were told to get it on by Embassy people.
“get it on” = “get on it” 🙂 Freudian slip?
Then there’s really a communication problem with some Americans being told to leave and others not being told. However, for now, that kind of indicates that there is not an official evacuation occurring although I would have course not rule one out depending on what happens next. Basically, at the moment, we have two conflicting reports from Americans in Georgia so it’s too early to say, although as I said, I won’t rule it out. An ex-PCV from Georgia here in Yerevan is already preparing for many house guests if and when it does happen. Ironically, he already has three guests — PCVs from Armenia who planned to go up to Georgia today until he talked them out of it. Interestingly, nobody else had warned them not to.
Anyway, I’m guessing this is all going to change with a declaration of a state of war, and yes, I suppose they might evacuate lesser-important people first? In batches perhaps?
Still, someone needs to communicate what’s going on. Having one group of Americans evacuating and others not being told anything is not a good situation for the latter, I think.
At the very least I would expect an official communique (and not just from the Americans) to all foreign citizens telling them to be ready for evacuation. Anyway, post any updates as I know my friends in Georgia are now feeling weird about this news.
Another friend’s plane trip out of Georgia, scheduled for Monday morning on Luftansa, was cancelled a few minutes ago. He had this ticket for months.
Well, maybe 1 or 2 of the evacuation insurance companies covered their people today and the other companies will cover other people tomorrow or later in the week. All of that stuff is totally privatized.
Katy – didn’t I mention a ‘reliable source’? 😉 You will notice that my sources for this story are all from the Guardian, I don’t even trust BBC. There is serious information warfare going on now and people exposed to English language content are mostly getting the anti-Russian perspective of the story. My post was a look into some alternative aspects of it, an attempt to explore Saakashvily’s options.
Katy, found word of one USAID team being evacuated (Google Wu Wei blog). And yes, I’d expect it to be prioritized depending on the situation — removing less essential personnel and so on.
As for bias, I think that in this case it’s interesting to discover what the different geopolitical factions are saying. And is it really a surprise that Russians and Armenians are anti-Georgian? They always have been so I wouldn’t expect unbiased coverage as a result.
Regardless, it is very illuminating.
That said, while I personally think Russia is meddling too much in the internal affairs of a country such as Georgia, it is true that Saakashvili is renowned for being a “hot-head” and “impulsive.”
It’s hard to say, however, how I feel about this conflict. I don’t like what Russia is doing in Georgia, I do have friends in Georgia, but I don’t like war and whatever the reason — and whoever is to blame — I hope for restraint.
I also have to admit that I have been personally disappointed in the militaristic rhetoric coming from Georgia in recent years, but it’s interesting to note that the same mentality is prevalent here and in Azerbaijan when it comes to making concessions over Karabakh.
What this region needs is peace and stability. That’s all I want and this must now be a pressing issue for the international community if we want to avoid similar incidents happening. For example, if Azerbaijan attacks Karabakh.
And btw: If that were to happen, I wouldn’t expect the Russians to step in.
Unzipped reports that 150 Armenian citizens are being evacuated with Georgian police escort from Batumi and Kobuleti.
The truth is Saakashvily just blew the possibilities of peaceful conflict settlement in South Ossetia and Abkhasia, put a serious strain on Karabakh talks.
I’m thinking that with nobody in this region able to compromise over anything for the sake of peace, stability and regional integration, the military solution to all of the frozen conflicts was inevitable and everyone is to blame for that. It’s the way of the region. Always has been and, it would appear, always will be.
Just heard CNN report that the Russian Black Sea fleet has mobilized off the coast of Georgia and that there is now fighting in Abkhazia as well. Don’t know if that has crossed the wires elsewhere yet or not.
Clearly, from France, Caucasus is a very complicated area, puzzling for foreigners.
We in the West would be quite foolish to interfere in this matter. Both Georgia and Russia have made mistakes but I would certainly not put the blame solely on Russia.
The real long term answer lies on a redrawing of artificial frontiers which are anyway outdated after the Kosovo war. Many people around the world would deserve an independent country of their own (Kurds, Basques…), many areas wrongly attributed to an hostile country should return to the right one (think of Nagorny Karabakh). Why shouldn’t the South Ossetians reunite with their countrymen in Russia ?
It is time to end the harmful myth of the intangible borders.
Ani – from what I’ve read so far it seems Russian forces are attacking from all sides and Russia’s Medvedev is speaking of punishing those guilty (i.e. Saakashvili) on international bodies (i.e. Haage tribunal). Uzogh thinks Russia needs the full capitulation of Georgia in order to do that. PanarmeniaNet reports, that Saakashvili has suffered a heart attack (unconfirmed).
The death toll is rising. HORRIBLE!
Here’s CNN’s link: I think it autoupdates, but this one was dated 2 minutes ago:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/09/georgia.ossetia/index.html
This whole thing confirms what we already knew: Saakashvili is an idiot. It also shows that there is no bound to Russia’s hypocrisy. How it can support maintaining territorial integrity of some countries (itself with regard to a dozen separatist regions, Azerbaijan, Serbia) but not others’ is beyond me. Humanitarian crisis my ass…For years now, it’s been a staunch critic of the “responsibility to act” implication of the UN mandate and along with China has rejected/vetoed resolution after resolution that would let the UN Security Council to interfere in Sudan, Zimbabwe and most recently in Myanmar, citing the sovereignty of these countries. Everyone who has followed Russia’s and China’s shameful votes in the Security Council is left to wonder where this new-found urge to “protect the population” regardless of Georgia’s sovereignty is coming from.
Btw, the latest from the Armenian MFA is that people are indeed being evacuated; I’ve also heard that tourist agencies are canceling trips to Kabuleti and other areas in Georgia.
Me, you are right to point out Russia’s hypocrisy. However, let not forget other hypocrits as well, such as the US and EU and pretty much everyone else. How come some separatists deserve to be independent (i.e. East Timor, Kosovo), while others like South Ossetia don’t? If the US is so much in favor of territorial integrity, then what about Serbia’s territorial integrity? I guess my point is that politics is full of hypocrisy, both in Russia and everywhere.
PASSOU, I wish more people thought like you!
They (EU, NATO, UN, US, etc) are naturally all going to do as they please and act in their own best interests; the US especially have lost any shred of moral authority they had in matters such as these b/c of their ill-conceived invasion of Iraq.
In Russia’s case, the hypocrisy is more troubling and stark given its recent votes to not allow the UN Security Council to interfere in Zimbabwe and Myanmar where hundreds and thousands of lives were at stake.
Me, you wrote:
— They (EU, NATO, UN, US, etc) are naturally all going to do as they please and act in their own best interests.
Agree. So does Russia. What’s the big difference?
V, Pretty big difference is that EU, NATO, UN, US do not share a border and they are not seeking to annex territory. And yes, Russia is seeking to annex territory:
Russia Today
http://tinyurl.com/6cbx63
News
July 15, 2008, 14:06
Pretty big difference!
By the way, Russia particlarly wants Abkhazia because it’s so close to Sochi and the Olympics sites.
Btw, I am not defending anyone, I am just pointing out that every country is doing what they feel like doing, what they think is in their interests (however misguided this thinking may be), without any regard to principles or morals.
There was a good joke about politics. It explains the word politics in the following way: “poli” means “many” and “tics” are blood-sucking creatures! I think this describes it very well, be it in Russia, US, EU, Armenia, wherever…
Ani, all i was saying is that they (RUssia, EU, US) are all hypocrits. In some cases they claim territorial integrity is the way to go (Russia in the case of Serbia, EU and US in the case of Georgia), and in other cases they speak of self-determination (Russia in the case of Georgia/Ossetia, EU and US in the case of Serbia/Kosovo). So, they are all guilty of exactly the same thing, namely flip-floping as they see fit, without regard to principles.
I speak English not well, but I really wanna ask. I’m Russian. RF didn’t start the war in Ossetia. Короче я не могу объяснить это на английском языке. Просто скажу, что для западных граждан показывают далеко не все, что показывают нам тут. Я конечно понимаю, можно сказать, что и для русских информацию фильтруют.
Пару лет назад я ездила в Абхазию и там нашим гидом была осетинская девушка, которая рассказала о том что творилось в Осетии и Абхазии в 90 годы. И глазами мирных жителей картина более очевидна, чем по ТВ. Человек которому пришлось пройти войну и наблюдать позицию и той и другой стороны более объективен. Теперь история повторяется, просто потому что Саакашвилли из кожи вон лезет, чтобы страну свою в НАТО протащить. А Буш всегда лезет не в свое дело. И тактика поведения грузинского лидера очень напоминает тактику американского. А почему Россия находится на территории Грузии, так в 99 году был подписан документ, на основании которого во время военных действий против Осетии или Грузии, Россия обязана будет по этому документу оказать помощь пострадавшей стороне. А еще… все обсуждают какие русские уроды… а скажите, это нормально когда из горячей точки русские хотят вывести мирных жителей, а грузины бомбят без остановки и не позволяют вывести женщин и детей? Что это если не геноцид? Все больше ничего говорить не буду, кому будет интересно, тот прочтет и быть может задумается над своей однобокой оценкой. Поймите, люди, нужно всегда оценивать ситуацию с двух сторон. Хотя о чем я говорю, если даже в войне с фашизмом 1941-1945 годов на территории СССР, такой город, как Таллин высказывался простив русских солдат-защитнков и называет нашу армию чуть ли не игом. Но это уже совсем другая история.
I would highly recommend to see this
http://hayk.livejournal.com/359632.html
How Reuters is creating fotosession of victims.
Have you seen CNN report with the pictures of Tskhinvali(bombed by Georgian forces) with the simultaneous text-Russian military are bombing Georgia?
As we say in French, “la loi du plus fort est toujours la meilleure” the strongest’s law is always the best.
Georgia tried to impose its rule to small South Ossetia. Russia will force small Georgia to kneel, USA would like Russia to withdraw and so on.
One day, some aliens could come on Earth and enslave us all.
Никакого гуманитарного коридора для вывода мирного населения Грузия не предоставляет. Не всем удается вырваться из охваченной боями Южной Осетии. 8 августа в районе Зарской дороги грузинской самолет Су-25 нанес удар по автомашине, в которой пытались эвакуироваться осетины.
Вот так. Где нибудь такая информация на западных сайтах представлена?
В данной ситуации я не критикую Россию. Насколько я могу судить, последний конфликт был спровоцирован Грузией, и Россия сделала то, что и следовало ожидать. Конечно, Россия перебарщила с бомбардировками грузинских городов (что тоже следовало ожидать…), но все таки Саакашвили должен был это предвидеть.
Все, что я говорил, это то, что все страны, в том числе и Россия, имеют обыкновение менять позицию по принципиальным вопросам. В случае с Сербией, Россия поддерживает принцип территориальной неприкосновенности, а Европа и США говорят о самоопределении. В случае с Осетией и Абхазией, все в точности до наоборот.
Ani, Russia has been supporting Abkhazia LONG before Sochi was chosen to host the Olympics. So, this part of your theory is not valid.
Here is NYTimes coverage, which also has photos and a video report. Tigran, I think some of them might be common photos with your link, not sure. Anyway, it’s a catastrophic mess, you and I definitely agree on this.
http://tinyurl.com/55yo4v
А собственно никто никого не признал, я такого не говорила. А на счет ответного огня, так мы всего-лишь защищаем наших миротворцев, которые там находятся. И кто вам сказал, что Россия кого-то бомбит? Это наглая провокация Саакашвилли. Совместная с Америкой. Там, в Грузии, все что связано с Саакашвилли, все липа. Я наблюдала за выборами президента Грузии, так это тоже было наглой подтасовкой. Не без вмешательства действующего президента страны. Кстати, о подтасовках… Тигран Кочарян выложил неплохую сылочку. Советую посмотреть. Какие мысли будут?
Also, re CNN, they’re still scrambling because they don’t have regular people stationed in the Caucasus, and I don’t doubt they’re making errors. I’m not around a TV right now, so I didn’t see it.
Well, Georgia’s bet seemed very risky indeed.
Russia seems eager to show its teeth and this small country is likely to becom even smaller soon.
Treacherous “friends”, doubtful right, Russia at its doors, even the best warriors in the world would have hesitated.
And seeing what I see, I don’t think that Georgians are the Spartans of our days.
Утверждение, что фотки подтасованы, не очень убедительно. Мужчина действительно один и тот же, но фотографировать могли с разных сторон, поэтому и фон другой. Стена, кстати, розовая на обоих фотографиях, так что фото могли быть сделаны в том же месте. На счет пыли на лице (или ее отсутствия), не могу сказать. Лицо могли и почистить – не исключено.
PASSOU, everyone in his/her right mind would have hesitated.
V-All fake photos and explanations are here.
http://community.livejournal.com/georgia_war/45708.htm
Georgia stands no chance.
Russia dropped a couple of bombs near to Baku-Jeyhan pipeline which was a warning to west not to get involved.
Saakashvili brought misery to its people. It seems he really became a true dictator, he lost the ability of judgment.
V, just noticed your comment–we had crossed. Yes, Russia has been supporting all along, but it is eager to get the whole thing “solved” now, because the Olympics is coming up. Anyway, there is blame enough to go around on both Georgia and Russia’s sides, unfortunately.
Story here (there are lots of them) re Abkhazia-Sochi connection: http://www.res.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=19255
Russia has huge interests and unfortunately Saakashvili lost his nerve and did what the Russians wanted.
It is naive to think that Russians didn’t know about the upcoming attack. Look at the Georgian army. They are fully modernized and reorganized for a war.
I still dont understand that on what Saakashvili relies upon. So far my only answer is that he is a lunatic. A trait found in dictators.
budu po ruski govoriw, tak lu4she. segodnia ia doljen bil poiwi v armiu, v gori. ia rezervist. okolo 2000 molodie rebiata sobralis v komisariate 4tob poexaw tam, vsex pozvanili iz komisariata. no vsexje otpuswili domoi, v tom 4isle i menia. zaregistrirovalis,, pri4ina bila vtom 4tom tam uje dostoto4na voennie dlia spec operacii.
ia sam osetin! ia iz didmukha, eto o4en blizko ot tskhinvali, ia sam vidzel voinu 91-92 godu, xotite verte, xotite net, ia znaiu 4to tvorili ruskie tam. shas jivu v tbilisi. znaete ia zvanil moim druziam v didmukhe, oni skazali 4to ix dostali uje eto strelba i vzrivi s Kokoitski storoni. oni provocirovali. oni sami na4ili perviui strilbu, no eti rosiiskie telekanali vsio gavariat obratno. ia sam ne o4ento liublu politika saakashvili, no v etot raz on 100% prav. i ia v etom uveren.
dai bog 4tob vso skoree kon4elasbi.
Georgia buried Ossetian people alive, killed and tortured them in different methods. After all that the world community is silent and Georgians continue to kill. Only Russia is saving people! saakashvilli is a liar and killer!
The Russian agression against the Georgian Republic shows the real danger of Russia for the suverinity of the countries of South Caucasus and other neighbours.
The russian agressors want to justifie their agrassion by representing them as a solution of humanitarian crisis.For me as a citizen of Armenia it’s very interesting how can Russia solve this crisis after the operation “Kolco” in Nagorno Karabakh Autonom Republic joined with Azerbaidjanian OMON.How can he blame Georgia for so called “genocide” of Ossetians after the real and world known awfull GENOCIDE of Chechen nation,How can Russian president speak about the protection of the rights of russian citizens when the rights of millions ethnic russians stay unprotected and almost ignored in the Central Asian countries?Why russian authorities dont give their protection to this poor people if they are so interested in protection of rights of their citizens?
It’s also very interesting how can Russia blame Georgia and intervene into the internal affairs of Georgian Republic after its reaction connected by the resolution of Independence of Kosovo.
When the serbs were making ethnic cleanings against albanians for Russia it was no genocide,when the abkhazians and osetians were making ethnic cleanings against Georgians it was not genocide for russians but when georgians give a humanitarian coridor to Osetians for Russia it’s genocide.How CAN IT BE?
How can after this Quastions motivate its agression against the Georgian Republic?
It’s imoral Russia is ignoring the international law and it shows us that Russia is not a trustworthy partner for the South Caucasus Republic.Something more.After this events I understood that russian bassas and troops in the territory of Armenia is a real danger for the National suverenity of Republic of Armenia
Caucasus without Russia is peacefull comonwealth of ancient nations.
Caucasus without Russia!
Struggle! Struggle Till The End !
Bismark jan
Armenia completely lost its sovereignty after March the 1st events. Armenia is another region of the Russia Federation.
Bizzarmarck and nn – Comparing the Russian-Georgian-Osset situation and March 1 is ridiculous. And I do not that that the degree of Armenian sovereignty has much to do with the protests/government response/failed revolution of March 1.
“так мы всего-лишь защищаем наших миротворцев, которые там находятся.”
There’s a lot of misinformation on both sides; it seems to me a classic case of no culprits, just victims on all sides. I think it’s naturally people’s first instinct to blame Russia since it has a long history of aggression and sense of entitlement in the region. It’s near impossible to believe that Russians are doing this because they want to alleviate/avert a humanitarian crisis. Perhaps the story about protecting their “compatriots” would be somewhat more believable if it didn’t come from a country that would gas its own citizens before exhausting every effort to save them. But I’m guessing that was a big Western media fabrication too, along with Kurtsk.
The photo analysis is just fantastic stuff. So, Georgians, Russians, and Ossetians have been engaging in an all-out war, but there are no casualties or victims, and the photos are all a fabrication? In other words, “there are no American infidels in Baghdad”?
P.S.I think Saakashvilli made the biggest mistake of his life, don’t get me wrong. I just wonder when we as a region are going to stand up and refuse to be battlegrounds for the so-called superpowers’ proxy fights…
Lots more foreigners being evacuated.
Bismarck
You forgot to add
vVIVA GEORGIA!!!
HIMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Speaking seriously he real danger for Armenia are people with your ideas.
By the way,my advice,go and create another blog-chvraciner:) and enjoy yourself,great analytic…
Peacekeeprs????
How can Russia have peacekeeprs in Ossetia if he is a participant of this conflict.This so called peacekeeprs are the most real occupants of Georgian territories.This so called “peacekeeprs” have thousand times ignored the International Laws,the rights,suverinity and constitution of Georgian Republic.Russia has nothing to do in Caucasses becouse of its everlasting Intervations into the internal affairs of this countries.As a citizen of Armenia,As Armenian I am proud for Georgia!I am proud for Sahakashvili who gives us briliant examples of unprecident brave,courage and heroizm.Imagine a situation where Turkey would occupate Ararat Marz and after that a president like Sahakashvili would come and return this territories is any thing wrong here?Ossetia is a part of Georgia and georgian president according the International Law and Georgian constitution liberate its own territories.
Sahakashvili is a real leader of Georgian people.
We also would have real ellected president if there were no march 1-2 when uzurpator robik kocharian by the support of the Russian authorities and by the participation of the russian comanders of KGB such as general Sergey Eromov and others oppened fire against the peacefull demonstrants killing more than 10 persons .Its interesting what can the not ellected person who occupies the post of president serjik suggest to Russia and Georgia its mediation to solve the conflict.Now when the region in such a difficult situation I see that the only person who can keep Armenia away from this dangerous situation is the First president of Armenia 1991-1998 Levon Ter-Petrosian who already has such experience.
God Bless Georgia! I pray the god to give victory to Georgia in it’s Great Patriotic War aggainst the Russian Agression.
Viva Sacartvelos! Long live Georgia.
I wish Georgia Struggle! Struggle! Till The End!In liberation of its territories!
Payqar!Payqar!Minchev Verj!
Mamajanov, покажите грузинские разрушенные мирные поселения. Не стратегические объекты….фотки пожите. Все что было в инете-это подстава. России просто некогда заниматься войной, да и не к чему. У нас в стране гораздо болше важных задач для развития нашего государства. Нас и так после распада СССР раком поставили. Все повесили на Россию, все долги и все все. Такие страны как Украина и Грузия та же. Разбежались все. И мы, извините, на протяжении 17 лет на ноги встать пытаемся. Мы стали сильнее, и слово России в мироой политике не последнее. Вот Саакашвилли и провоцирует. Тяжело видно смотреть на то, что соседи стали жить если не намного лучше, то просто хорошо. А уж война нам совсем не нужна. России же придется восстанавливать Ю.Осетию. За свои бабки. А девочка Аня из Чехии явно плохо знает географию. Причем тут олимпиада в Сочи и Абхазия? Не понимаю. Абхазия-это не Россия.
И еще. Поймите вы что беженцы едут в Россию, а не в Грузию! И это уже о многом говорит. Или нет? Да и Кокойты война оже ни к чему. Какой дурак будет мир в доме нарушать? А вот Саакашвилли…есть резон. И невооруженным взглядом видно.
By the way Putin an Kocharian are the real candidates for the Haague tribunal not Sahakashvili.I think that Russian people will start the collection of signitures to sent Putin to Haague Tribunal for his war crimes and Genocide in Chechnya,like we are collecting to sent Kocharian to Haague!
Payqar ! Payqar! Minchev Verj!
Hima ! Hima! Hima!
http://www.himaam.info
Why Putin? You are crazy! The war in Chechnya was Elcin mistake, but not Putin. He finished it. You don’t know the history of RF. I live here and I saw all what was. Georgia was country what can’t stop the war in Chechnya. Putin and RF did it. Sorry for my English. Read the history of RF. All money and people what arrived to Chechnya was from the Georgian border.
Europeans do not know anything about history of Russia. They think that Russia-it vodka and Siberia. And now unless still Sochis have learnt. Russia imperial always was the strongest state. And of it were afraid. Now it again became strong at Putin. And Europeans again to be afraid to state an objective estimation. Here also rush about from one opinion to another. From history it is visible that it did not attack on attacked other states. All wars were because it attacked. And all lost. It is necessary to reflect.
T, let’s be serious please !
I respect Russia and its people who largely won the second World war.
It would be an excellent idea for Western Europe to tighten our ties with this great country, so huge and so full of natural resources.
I personnaly think, like de Gaulle, that Europe should go from Atlantic to Ural and that Russia, a european country, should be welcomed one day in the European Union (rather than Turkey a muslim and Asiatic country).
But don’t assert that Russia is perfect and has never provoked or attacked anybody.
That’s nonsense ! Tell that story to Poland or Finland, for exemple.
Having said that, I don’t put the blame solely on Russia in the current war.
Georgia’s bet was very risky and based on moving sands.
The best thing to do now is to solve the Abkhazian and South-Ossetian matters once and for all by redrawing wrong borders and letting people be absorbed by Russia if they want to.
Sorry, where are you from? What you mean when speak about Poland? I don’t understand… Russia never attaked this country. Many Western country (Poland, Czechia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia e.t.c.) are trying to rewrite history now, but they have no right to do it. And Russia always was the guarantor of stability and the world in the south of Russia. There people hot and easy to live simply are not able. And such charges from outside Saakashvili is simply insulting to hear. It revolts to depth of soul. I would wish to tell, but in view of absence of constant practice of English language much, it is difficult to me to make it. It is difficult to me to tell, but I understand that speak.
T, I am from France. Your love for your country is understandable but don’t let it blind you completely.
I don’t judge anybody in the war going on. Eveybody has his reasons and Georgia was certainly bold to attack this separatist province in such a brutal manner.
I am just saying two things :
– do not try to make us believe that Russia is perfect. No big country in the world is ! Maybe some small islands or mountainous states have a blank record regarding aggression or intimidation but that’s it.
– the real problem there and in many other parts of the world lies on historical borders which have been, unvoluntarily or on purpose, badly set up. It is time to put them right but I haven’t got any magic recipe to achieve that.
Sorry I cannot reply in Russian (a very melodious language, I had a girlfriend from Saint-Petersburg a long time ago), I am afraid that you will have to accept, like the Georgians, to argue with a stronger adversary.
Brits are out.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7552218.stm
I think once Saakashvili is out of a job, he can join LTP in Washington as they contemplate the what-ifs that their patrons must have promised them.
Tools.
I’ve wondered if there was anything at all that the topic of LTP and the “dark forces” that finance him wouldn’t be injected to. We still don’t seem to have found the threshold yet. My God.
Special for those who thinks Russia is carrying out peace-keeping operation in South Osetia.
The below paragraph is from the book “Blowing up the Russia” or in Russian “ФСБ взрывает Россию”. Can you see the parallels with this conflict?
—
Блистательную военную операцию по сожжению колонны российской
бронетехники в Грозном действительно организовал не
Грачев, а директор ФСК Степашин и начальник московского УФСБ
Савостьянов, курировавший вопросы устранения режима Дудаева
и ввода войск в Чечню.
Однако те, кто описывал банальные ошибки российских военных,
вводивших в город бронетанковую колонну, обреченную на
уничтожение, не понимали тонких политических расчетов провокаторов.
Сторонникам войны нужно было, чтобы колонну эффектно
уничтожили чеченцы. Только так можно было спровоцировать
Ельцина на начало полномасштабных военных действий.
Сразу же после разгрома бронеколонны в Грозном президент
Ельцин выступил с обращением к участникам конфликта в
Чеченской Республике, а Кремль начал подготавливать общественное
мнение к неминуемой войне. В интервью корреспонденту
РИА «Новости» консультант аналитического центра при президенте
России Аркадий Попов заявил, что в самое ближайшее время
Россия может выступить в Чечне в роли «принудительного миротворца» и что, судя по всему, российский президент намерен
действовать решительно. В случае объявления президентом чрезвычайного
положения на территории Чечни российские власти
могут использовать «форму ограниченного вмешательства, которое
будет выражаться в разоружении обеих конфликтующих сторон
путем ввода в Грозный ограниченного контингента российских
войск» — как уже было в Афганистане.
Sorry for not mentioning, the below paragraph is about War in Chechnya # 1
To redirect back to the “who started it” debate, it’s clear that both sides were both preparing and were hungry for this fight. And to show how hard it is to resolve a “who started it” question, I’m inserting a sadly entertaining story about the “Marco Polo Bridge Incident,” which in 1937 sparked the Sino-Japanese conflict as either a precursor or the start of World War II:
“The Marco Polo Bridge incident is another mystery. To this day, there seems to be no agreement between historians on exactly what happened. Some say the Chinese fired first, some say the Japanese. Some say a Japanese soldier was killed by the Chinese, others say the Japanese murdered one of their own to invade. Still others say a Japanese soldier went out to urinate, and that the Japanese thought the Chinese had kidnapped him, leading to the skirmish.”
Anyway, for those here defending Russia’s actions, just a question: If Abkhazia and South Ossetia win independence and then join a “union” with Russia, Russian borders will once again cross over the mountains into Transcaucasia. Is that something you welcome, or does it make you feel uneasy that the “bear” will want to also re-embrace the rest of the Caucasus?
Ani,
People in Abkhazia and South Ossetia have the right to self-determination, as do people in Karabakh, Kosovo and elsewhere. So, if they want to be part of Russia, then let them be part of Russia, regardless of where it puts Russia’s border.
The thing is that Russia has several similar conflicts within its borders and Putin would and indeed does throw a hissy fit if and when foreign leaders dare to so much as SPEAK out about them…Would it have been acceptable for Vladimir Vladimirovich if tanks were sent in to aid the separatists in Grozny? After all, people of say Chechnya and Tatarstan have the right to self-determination and so if they don’t want to be part of Russia, then let them not be part of Russia.
What I’m more worried about is not the hypocracy of Russia, US, etc., but having a fascist and psychopat leader of Georgia – a country, which Armenia directly depends on for 80% of its trade, and where a large Armenian diaspora is subjected to discrimination as I’ve written before on this blog and have even posted a link to a petition: http://www.gopetition.com/online/21024.html. And by the way, that was at least a couple of days before Mr. Saakashvili decided to bombard peaceful citizens of his own country and in one day killed 1500 (or 2000?), which constitutes 1.5-2% of the population of South Ossetia.
Me, I agree. People in Chechnya or Tatarstan or wherever else should have the right to self-determination. Of course, Putin would not like that.
Europe and USA have funded the Georgian war machine how pathetic ! Russia send message to the world ! Do not fxxx whit us , specially a little shit hole country like Georgia ! Russian federation is constutu
Not to yank anyone’s chain here but it is very naive to speak of hypocrisy when it comes to foreign policies and national interests.
The Russian Agression against The Georgian Republic reminds me the Fashist Germany agression against Chekhoslovakia.Now one of the general arguments of Russian Agressors is the thing that the half population of Ossetia are citizens of Russia .The same did Hitler attacking Chezoslovaki saying that the germans in Sudets are under repressions from Prague thats why he has to intervene into the internal policy of Chekhoslovakia for the protection of german rassa.The other argumantation of Russia again reminds me Hitler.Russia says` During the so called “attack” in Ossetia 16 so called “”””””Peacekeepers””””””” were killed so “we are punishing Georgian authorities for killing our so called “”peacekeepers””
The same did Hitler before the agression against Poland.All the agressors do it and Russia as well.During the history of Russia this country has daone a lot of acts of agressions ,more the territory of nowdays Russia is mainly based in it`s annexsionistic politics,agressions, and provokations so i must accept that Russians are perfect professionals of this buisness .
God Bless Georgia !!!!!!!!!
Viva Sacartvelos !!!!!!!!!!!!
Payqar ! Payqar ! Minchev Verj !!!
Hima ! Hima ! Hima !
Struggle ! Struggle! Till The End
[email protected]
www,himaam.info
Observer, do you really think Saakashvili is a psychopath? He seems more like a puppet. The west seems to be telling him to cause Russia as much headache as possible and that is what he is doing. It seems to me that this whole thing is just an act of desperation from Georgia’s side. They have been promised a lot by the West while they have also sacrificed a lot during their fight against Russia. It seems like Saakashvili attacked out of desperation, just to see if the West will give the promised help or not. If this is right, then I think he didn’t make a mistake. This was probably the only way to find out if the West is playing with Georgia or really wants to help. Blame the West as much as you blame Russia and Georgia. Hopefully he got the message and he will resign after this.
I’m surprised how noone is responding to the ‘T’ guy calling southern nations lazy, ‘not able’ and in need to be governed by Russians. Also a person calling himself ‘ME’ calling Karabakh a part of Azerbaijan. Anyway….
This is a colonial war. Abkhazia,Ossetia, Karabakh, Prednestrovie, ethnic Russian minorities in Baltic States, the war in Tajikistan – these are tools in the hands of an empire. The public opinion in Armenia is stirred up against Georgians and vice-versa, they don’t want the small guys to cooperate – divide et impera. We can all survive without Russian interference. As long as Russia tries to be a colonial empire and as long as its economy is corrupt and its leaders chauvinist, we have nothing to take from them. They just won’t leave us alone to sort out our problems and try to prosper as nations. Whenever there is a chance of them loosing influence they will not hesitate to stir up a conflict involving Armenia. For Russia history stopped in 1917 and continued from 1991, they missed the world changing from colonialism to regional and global cooperation. I can hear you people calling me naive, but every nation so far that has chosen to be a part of the free world has not been sorry for the choice made, whereas our nation has chosen the role of a constant hostage of the Russia’s colonial policy of war and destruction.
“Also a person calling himself ‘ME’ calling Karabakh a part of Azerbaijan.”
When did I say that? Paranoid much?
Nazarian, 100%!!!!
I think it is an underestimation to call Saakashvily a psychopath. If you look at the plan it looks very sound on the drawing board.
I think the plan was the following.
1- To equip and train Georgian army to be able to realise quick attacks. that is to have a very mobile force with the support of far range artillery attack. This is an ideal way for mountainous regions.
2- cause chaos and quickly move and shut down the Roki tunnel. Not to destroy it but block it.
3 – hold on for a week.
4- scorch earth tactic that is, destroy all the places where people can live so that S Osetians wont return for many years even if full scale construction starts after the war.
5 – sign a ceasefire agreement allowing the refugees to return back. Have an international peacekeeper force to be deployed.
But there was one big miscalculation that is, the Georgians couldn’t advance quickly enough and their force was not adequate. They couldn’t reach the Roki tunnel because Russians knew about this plan all along.
They (Russians) had over 100 tanks on the Russian side of the tunnel. They had bigger force in S Ossetia to stop the Georgian advance. they had their commandos ready.
As far as I see Georgians partially achieved their plan 1 and plan 3 but not the rest.
They didn’t achieve the point 2 because they didn’t have airborne troops , they don’t have satellite system to look from above.
If it was well calculate and planned Georgians could be in a better off situation as they are now..
Truth about the war
1. UN troopers were deployed between Georgia and South Osetia to prevent war. In order to attack Tskhinvali, the Georgians first killed the UN peacekeepers. This means, the UN peacekeepers were killed for carrying out their tasks assigned by the UN. This act of Georgia was not against South Osetia nor Russia, it was against the UN and the whole world’s community. Georgia has violated UN resolutions on ceasefire.
2. After killing UN peacekeepers the Georgians attacked Osetians. In order to attack the capital of South Osetia, the city of Tskhinvali, Georgian troops needed to pass through several Osetian villages. Georgian troopers destroyed these villages and murdered people who lived there; they used tanks to destroy houses and shot with machine guns at people who tried to escape: women, children, old people.
3. The capital of South Osetia, the city of Tskhinvali, was attacked by Georgia with indiscriminate weapons, i.e. houses of peaceful people were bombed with heavy bombs, missiles, shot at with tanks and grenade launchers, and Georgians have in fact razed the city to the ground.
4. As Russia discovered that Georgians:
– killed UN peacekeepers;
– violated the UN Regulation on ceasefire;
– destroyed several Osetian villages and murdered people who lived there;
– started destroying the city of Tskhinvali and its people,
it had no other choice but to stop the aggressor and the genocide of Osetians.
5. Georgia must bear a strong international responsibility for its crimes, namely:
– killing UN peacekeepers, who fulfilled their duties under international regulation;
– violating UN regulations on ceasefire;
– destroying several Osetian villages and murdering people who lived there (de facto this is a genocide);
– using indiscriminate weapons against civilians of Tskhinvali.
6. It is necessary to demand economical and political sanctions against Georgia.
This is a good lesson for small countries.
It shows that they will not be able to successfully realise attacks and invasions. They simply don’t have the attacking technology. The defence technology is available but the superpowers make sure that only they possess the attacking technologies. And because the defensive technology is available the super powers use mainly economic forces in they colonisation efforts.
People, are you aware what’s going on Russia on-line media. They say, that they foond Spyes and Terrorists in the teritory of Russia who were going to make terroristic acts in the military objects. Most probabaly the information is fake and/or this groups are established by FSB so that to use them against any organization they want to. When needed FSB can claim this groups are from Georgia or from Chechnya, or from any other “enemy” state.
This is the same signature of invading into Chechnya, and also the same signature of invading to Afghanistan and Iraq. The FSB (in Russia) and CIA (US) organizes this terror and then accuses certain countries (Chechnya, Georgia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan) and organizations (Al Qaeda) for them.
This is a very old technology to influence public opinion on starting the long term wars. This technology has been used even in World War 2 when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor (1 week before US president had been informed for an attack but did nothing to prevent it).
So guys, it seems to me we are in a big shit. The war is approaching us…
P.S. the most provocative question is why did they find them now and not 1 month ago. The answer is: it is neccessary to find them now, since now is the time for invasion or so-called anti-terror which is the same terror by itself
I hope this is not true!!!
http://www.evrazia.org/n.php?id=2739
Армяне Грузии создают вооруженные формирования против Саакашвили
В Ахалкалакском районе Грузии , компактно населенном армянами, начались волнения. Грузинскими властями предпринимались попытки сконцентрировать армянское населения в зоне их компактного проживания, с целью ограничить свободу передвижений. Сред армян Джавахетии появились первые вооруженные формирования, которые готовятся в данный момент дать отпор грузинским военным, пытающимся перенести волну этнических чисток на сей раз на территории Ахалкалаки.
Сайты армянского движения Джавахетии не действуют. По сообщению из армянских источников к границе Грузии со стороны Армении начинают стягиваться регулярные части армянской армии.
I hope this is not true. That website is a Russian and highly anti-Georgia propaganda website. Of course it is in the interest of the Russians to open a 3rd frontier.
the best we can do is to stay neutral and avoid any confrontations. It is natural that the Georgians will be worried considering the pro-Russian sentiments in that region.
I couldnt find any Javakhk Armenian website that were down. I think this is misinformation.
Are there any?
Guys – this must be dezinformation – a deliberately fabricated information released on propagandistic purposes. I have found no confirmation of the information from any other source, which means it is most likely misinformation, so the less you disseminate it, the better.
The only related thing i could find is: http://www.arminfo.info/index.php?show=archive&number=20080809_155800_eng_10053
Why Hovhannisian talks about this without facts and doesnt give names?
I have high reservations in what he says.
My suspicion is that while there could be those in Javakheti who would be willing to fight against the Georgians this is probably an attempt to escalate the situation. Spoke to someone earlier today to ask new arrivals from Georgia staying with him after their evacuation and they consider that the rumor (refuted by the Georgians) of Russian jets flying from Armenia was part of this too. i.e. to send a “green light” to nationalists in Javakheti even if the story about the jets appears to be false.
I also think this source is fake due to enourmous number if such provocative and uncomfirmed posts.
Being French, I usually am in favour of small countries versus big ones.
But for once I make an exception and must say that Georgia made a big mistake to attack Ossetia with such brutality.
And Ossetia isn’t historically part of Georgia, instead of Kosovo which was granted independence even if it were the heart of Serbia.
Russia is not perfect of course but I certainly trust more Putin than Bush and his puppets.
Let’s allow Abkhazia and South Ossetia to join with Russia and redraw these wrong borders, here and everywhere else in the world.
It will cause turmoil but the current situation is unbearable, think of Nagorny Karabakh.
http://www.evrazia.org/
This site is created for some propaganda reason. There is a rumor that this is a project of some russian guys to provoke tensions in a region.
If you look carefully no news from there seems to have any ground,
For me personally,such kind of info like about Javakhk is style of sites like day.az
People,be careful.
There is big propaganda war,so far,providing any links taki into account possible outcomes.
http://guinplen-001.livejournal.com/46170.html
Nice coverage of the history of georgian-osetian conflict.
Tigran, Russian provocateurs in Javakh–sounds familiar somehow. Yes, beware, it’s terribly hard to separate truth from fiction right now.
For English readers, I posted a humungous article from the New York Times on khosq that gives a background, to parallel your Russian link.
http://khosq.com/en-us/article/2008/08/09/taunting_the_bear_new_york_times_in_depth_opinion_article_on_georgia_russia_confl
Also, an important article from the Moscow Times on the forced resignation of Russia Today reporter William Dunbar for refusing the file the “correct” story.
http://www.moscowtimes.ru/article/600/42/369695.htm
Очень интересный анализ событий у ahousekeeper -a
В связи со всем этим информационным кипишем вокруг Осетии возник вопрос, который вообще-то должен был возникнуть ещё с первого дня войны. Моей тормознутости, конечно, нет никаких оправданий.
Известно, что в современной политике войны без PR-профессионалов не начинают. Точнее, они начинают работать задолго до начала войны. Поэтому логичен вопрос: какие американские PR-фирмы или лоббистские конторы работают сейчас для Грузии?
Небольшая прогулка по Гугл вывела на фирмы Scheunemann & Associates и Orion Strategies LLC, владельцем которых является Рэнди Шунеман (Randy Scheunemann). В газете «Уолл Стрит Джорнал» от 23 мая этого года сообщалось, что фирмы Шунемана, кроме прочих представляли также интересы Грузии и Македонии (статья не в свободном доступе, нужные отрывки — тут). ( Read more… )В марте он в письменном виде заявлял в минюст, что прекращает работать с этими клиентами, однако журналисты «Уолл Стрит Джорнал» выяснили, что тем не менее договора на общую сумму $240000 между его фирмами и этими странами всё ещё остаются в силе. Более того, пресс-секретарь грузинского посольства в Вашингтоне подтвердила журналистам, что контракт посольства с фирмой Orion Strategies LLC активен. Добавлю от себя, что ещё год назад Шунеман сам в открытую заявляет, что является официально зарегистрированным в минюсте лоббистом Грузии в письме журналу Harpers. В свою очередь Комсомолка утверждает, что Шунеман лоббировал за вступление Латвии в НАТО и до недавних пор продолжал это делать для Грузии.
А чем примечателен Рэнди Шунеман по жизни? Из мелочей (вкусное оставляю на десерт ;)): перед американским вторжением в Ирак он успел поработать директором группы, лоббировавшей в пользу вторжения. Контора работала под вывеской «Комитет по освобождению Ирака» (Committee for the Liberation of Iraq). В свою очередь эта группа представляла из себя подпроект организации Project for New American Century (PNAC), в котором тот же Шунеман работал аналитиком по вопросам международных отношений и национальной безопасности. PNAC — контора неоконов, о которой достаточно подробно уже написал сегодня Слон. Отмечу только, что посланник США в ООН Залмай Халилзад — пикировавшийся вчера в Совбезе с Чуркиным — тоже из кадров PNAC.
Но вернёмся к Шунеману. Неутомимый труженник является также членом совета директоров International Republican Institute (IRI), который в свою очередь представляет из себя инструмент продвижения интересов National Endowment for Democracy. Что такое NED, думаю объяснять не надо. Также в 2005—2006 гг. его фирма Scheunemann & Associates выступала в роли субподрядчика для другой лоббистской фирмы Caspian Alliance, Inc, которая связана с нефтяным бизнесом в Казахстане, Туркмении и Азербайджане.
Но это всё мелочи. Самое интересное, что Рэнди Шунеман — главный советником сенатора Маккейна по международным отношениям. В свете чего крайне агрессивное заявление кандидата в президенты США от республиканцев относительно «российского нападения на Грузию» заиграло новыми, более богатыми цветами 😉
По особому смотрится сейчас и заявление Эстонии о необходимости немедленно принять Грузию в НАТО: не надо быть параноиком, чтобы предположить, что возможно к этой инициативе Эстонии приложили руки люди Шунемана.
http://ahousekeeper.livejournal.com/272710.html
In case you didn’t see it, we’ve been talking about this angle on Unzipped’s blog:
http://unzipped.blogspot.com/2008/08/did-us-prep-georgia-for-war-with-russia.html
Russia really wanted this war for the reasons we’ve discussed (creeping territorial land grab, oil pipeline, more hotels for Sochi Olympics, etc.) U.S. Republicans want this war because it’s the only way they can possibly retain the White House in November. (Peace = Democrats; War = Republicans) South Ossetians and Abkhazians want to be independent or Russian (whichever you believe), and Saakashvili wants to keep the country together, but without giving economic incentives for the Ossetians and Abkazians to remain. Once again, the common people are fodder for others’ ambitions.
For many years I was sure that Serjik Kocharyan(Serjik+Robik are the same personage in this case) are the vasals,represenetives of the so called “Fortpost” of the Russian Impery,but today I understood how correct was the president of Armenia Levon Ter-Petrosian in his speach of 08.12.2007 which was called “History,Ideology,Tipology”
In this speach President Ter-Petrosian formulated the termonogical conception of the term Tatar-Mongol.
Serjik Sargsyan is a SLAVE! He and his surrounding dont imagine their lives without being a Slave and not having their own Slaves!For Serjik and his surrounding the only way of rulling the State is accepting of enslavement of Russia,rulling as a Slave,and rulling the Slaves.For him as a tipical Bandit,Tatar-mongol its impossible to imagine or to understand the free citizen,its impossible to imagine that 700000 persons(not people but person 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=700 000 )can struggle for the real Independence of their country,Its impossible for them to understand that the CITIZEN can struggle for the protection of his and other’s rights,For serjik slave is a slave like him whos the only aim is to be a slave,the only way to be regarded to have a slave,thats why he understand the Idealogy of the Armenian Citizens movement.Its also difficult and immoral to understan how can a little state like Georgia can war-call the Impery like Russia,for him the Patriotic War of the Georgian people is something strange and blameworthy, and serjik show it very openly yestrday during his conversation with anothes Slave called Medvedev,the same he show today when he signed the resolution of ODKB according to wich the actions in Ossetia deckares as Genocide.
How after this we will have the right to blame Georgia if he accept the version of the genocide of Khodjalu or if Georgia openly support Azerbadjan.We will only blame ourselves for letting the slave to uzurpate the post of the president of Armenia.
The victory will be ours!
Struggle!Struggle!Till The End!
Dear Armenian Bismarck Churchill Mao Lenin Stalin Trotsky:
Please do not repeat the racist anti-Armenian rhetoric spewed by Levon.
You may not like President Sargsyan, of course that is your opinion, but there is no need to sink to the low levels of the power-at-all-costs demagogues of the radical opposition. This attempt to psychologically divide the nation in unnecessary and destructive,
“President Sarksian” LOL :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I think that a person before becoming a President should be ELLECTED
Serjik Sarkisyan iz not a President.The real ellected president who has the real votes of the majority of the Armenian Society is President Ter-Petrosian.Serj Sarkisian is just the person who uzzurpatedx the post of the President of Armenia Thats All he has no limit of trust or legetimicy,we dont deveide the nation we just wont to live in a normal state where the bandits like Serj Kocharian would be issolated from the Society in Prisons.Is it radical or not?The terrorists will be sent to prisons and we will do it
the victorious and triumfal CITIZENS will do it as the victory will be ours
Struggle ! Struggle ! Till The End !
Haxtelu Enk!
http://www.himaam.info
P.S the term Tatar-Mongol here has no connection to tatars or Mongols as well .Here in this context the term Tatar-Mongol means the philosopy of governing So it can never be accepted as Racist ok?
NO PASSARAN
Alas, Chancellor Bismarck, AH/Housekeeper/Reflective/Kareninskyanikov has been enlightened repeatedly about the actual meaning of the Tatar/Mongol khanate, but he just cannot understand political analogy. Your vision of a slave governing slave governing slave sounds precisely like a Russian matryoshka doll. Anyway, there’s another Armenian political analogy we can find (unfortunately, it’s a historical pattern), so let’s go back to the 5th century and see if AH will prefer this one:
The Marzpanate period is the time in Armenian history after the fall of the Arshakuni Dynasty of Armenia in 428, when Marzpans (governors-general of the boundaries), nominated by the Sassanid Persian King, governed the eastern part of Armenia. An estimated three million Armenians fell under the sway of the Persian marzpans during this period. The Marzpan was invested with supreme power, even to the imposing of death sentences; but he could not interfere with the age-long privileges of the Armenian nakharars (feudal lords) Armenia was divided into large estates, which were the property of an enlarged noble family and were ruled by a member of it, to whom the title of nahapet “chief of the family” or tanuter master of the house was given. Other members of a nakharar family in their turn ruled over smaller portions of the family estate. (from Wikipedia articles)
Anyone today can drive out of Yerevan and see the palace of nakharar Dodi Gago. And Sargsyan is simply a governor-general of the new Russian empire. Armenia under Kocharian and Sargsyan is not simply a puppet regime, it’s a shadow puppet regime, and cannot even think a thought of its own.
I have no idea with what state of mind you penned the above euphoric delirium. But without addressing all of the points, I’ll just say that arguing that “the term Tatar-Mongol here has no connection to tatars or Mongols” is something that could only come from the self-delusional Ter Petrosyan.
AH, whatever his state of mind, at least ABC has some passion for his country, and I will take his passion any day over your curled-lip distain–you write like someone that Dracula passed up as not worth the effort.
Thanks Ani but while you drive through Armenia and see the palaces of today’s oligarchs, it makes me sadder to drive through the French Riviera or Beverly Hills to see the millions appropriated by LTP, Telman, Grzo and the rest of your empassioned heroes.
AH, did you forget Serzh’s brother’s LA accommodations? As for the oligarchs, don’t worry, they’ve got plenty of places and money stashed all over the world.
Hey everyone you have to read this one. I think Serzh is finally realizing his end is coming soon. Hear this out. This is a segment from lragir.am.
When the reporter of the Haykakan Zhamanak asked why President Serge Sargsyan watching the Olympic Games in Beijing did not return to Armenia when war ignited not far from Armenia, Galust Sahakyan said: “Frankly speaking, since Levon Ter-Petrosyan was here, they thought he would settle everything” Said the deputy leader of the Republican Party Galust Sahakyan who was hosted at the Iravunk de facto Club.
Back to the “who started it” question, there is an attempt at a chronology today by the Washington Post; it shows how muddy the waters are on the question.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/16/AR2008081600502.html?hpid=topnews
Georgian aggress and genocide Ossetia people and Russian peace-makers
We present a set of photographs from the war in South Ossetia made by Arcady Pachinko, one of the editors of Russian war veterans Almanac ”Art of War” (http://www.navoine.ru/). Arcady went with Russian troops on the route Vladikavkaz – Tshinval – Zemo Nikozi – Gori and participated as journalist in the battle for Georgian village Zemo Nikozi. Photographs were prepared and placed in the Internet by Chief Editor of the Almanac Ilya Plekhanov.
Almanac “Art of War” literature project for veterans of recent wars. It has become apparent that there are many talented writers among veterans. They have been able to create an outstanding literature that appeals to readers everywhere with its sincerity, honesty and factual accuracy. We are privileged to publish works of Russian and foreign authors from all over the world who are veterans of Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. Russian translations of war literature in other languages can also be found here.
The “Art of War” almanac is for those who live, who remember, and who want to know what war actually is. This almanac is also for the soldier, the man who does know war intimately. We hope this almanac may become a rehabilitation ground for veterans. We would be glad to see you among our writers, readers and subscribers.
Full text of the Editor Note: http://www.navoine.ru/life/inostrannye-yazyki/261
Photo http://www.navoine.ru/life/270
American and European mass media not right. That American course in scramble dominant party in favor of Oval Office.
I always know what American government and businessmen when pursue purposes always immolate people both their citizen so foreigner people all the more so
both apart from of itself nobody for people not valid! How that been in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Serbia, Afghanistan, etc.
American government gate an order their vassal country Georgia attack Ossetia republic. Russia protect their people. Mass media settle down to brainwash population of word a wrong impression information. And people both don’t know history itself country, say nothing of history of Word. Suck at analyze situation, he takes it all in on. American government to carry one’s point, on-coming dictator Mac Kein amended regain positions in favor of Oval Office and one jump ahead of Obama. And America for the time being hero, Russia aggressor, Georgia indemnity, and Ossetia overall nobody don’t know what that ! American government do one’s bit, and Georgian president just in case make as if get the laugh. So if all mistake way, it is possible say that Saacashvili psychinosis and American don’t know this and warranted free from acts Georgian President!
Study history, people! Russia never been aggressor, he only protect always. As was formerly the case witch Mongolia, first Word War when half Europe attack Russia and Two Word War when Fashist attack Russia, and Japan war when Japan attack Russian, and Chechen conflict when terrorist kill Russian people. All country of Europe pass a wet sponge over what Russia lost many soldier emancipate from Fashist Army country of Europe, and usually nobody don’t occupation. I guess so it been stink out Fashist from Russian territory and pull out Fashist at Europe territory interesting what will been?
One mistake of Russia will be Cheh Republic when Russia want stop revolution and Afghanistan when Russia want stop narcotraffic, where Russia forfeit lives her soldier.
Hungry to sensation Word mass media there is do from Russia the Grate Word Aggressor good gum! what’s that? That sensation! Whereof recognize that banal conflict where Georgia as early as over the period of 300 years trying terminate nonconformist (according to Georgia) fight for independence Ossetia republic and has nail that territory himself! Mass media that not interesting, that not sensation!
People will be objective!
America have control Iraq, so that connect access to oil! If Russia will be as greedy as America and want control anything. Оonly in Georgia nothing doing, that beggar country. Oonly Saacashvili vocalize about healthy Georgia. Only one fact more than 75 present population live and work in Russia territory and only thereon Georgian economic receive if only something many.(grim humor: if Russia would like kill Georgian people (whereof talk president Saacashvili)
so Russian army needed doing at one night kill all Georgian people on Russian territory and then other Georgian people live in Georgia died themselves of famine)
Georgia was healthy only in USSR, but when Georgia stay independent, all what was build Russian for Georgia (fabric and manufacture) was stop work and beggar Georgian people break down that and sell it as scrap metal.
Тtherefore Georgia was occupation the riches closely-spaced health resort republic as Ossetia and Aphasia. So that make many on tourism.
Truth about war in Ossetia that is overlooked by BBC and CNN
At 7 p.m. on August 8, the day when Olympics started, worldwide community heard from CNN and BBC news that Russian tanks invaded Georgia and that Russia started war with Georgia.
That the war had begun 16 hours earlier by Georgian president Sukashvili’s order these media preferred to pass over in silence.
But you have the right to know truth. That’s how this really happened:
According to old tradition of Olympic Games’ eve everyone was looking for peace and quiet. On August 7, Georgian and South Ossetian officials agreed to observe a ceasefire and hold debates in attempt to solve their long-term conflict peacefully.
August 8, 00:06
Just hours later, six minutes past midnight on August 8, inhabitants of Ossetian capital Tskhinvali, peacefully sleeping in their beds, heard dreadful whizz of incoming rockets. The hell followed soon… Without any declaration Georgian forces launched massive shelling of Tskhinvali with all available means, including heavy artillery and multiple-launch rocket systems GRAD. In this massacre, in just several hours, the whole city was ruined: 2,000 human lives wasted and 85% of all buildings demolished. Georgian military expedition, called “Clean field”, yielded its first fruits…
August 8, 03:00
Georgian army occupied five Ossetian villages, burning them to ashes.
August 8, 03:30
Georgian tanks started attack on Tskhinvali. Ossetian militia stood up to the enemy but could not keep back 30-times outnumbering Georgian forces. Many basements where Ossetins tried to escape shelling were showered with grenades. At the very same time, Georgian “peacekeepers”, serving in South Ossetia, launched unexampled attack on their yesterday’s colleagues, Russian peacekeepers, managing to kill at least 10 of them.
August 8, 04:33
Russia called for UN Security Council meeting to put a stop to Georgian military aggression and seize fire. No decision was delivered at neither this nor several following meetings.
August 8, 09:00
Russian Prime Minister Putin informed President Bush that Georgia launched war against Ossetia. Mr. Bush answered that “nobody wanted this war”.
Ossetia was praying for help. It was already obvious that “clean field” meant nothing else but ethnical cleansing. In these circumstances, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev announced that Russia would defend Russian citizens who constitute 90% of South Ossetia population.
August 8, 16:00
Russian forces overstepped mountain pass and made their way toward perishing Ossetins. That was exactly the moment when CNN and BBC finally “noticed” the war and broadcasted their «Russians invaded Georgia» scenes. Sukashvili announced that Russia invaded Georgia and held back that he started this horrible bloodshed himself.
Before midnight, Russian and Ossetian forces kicked aggressors out of Ossetian capital. Survived citizens started to leave basements to escape the city. In the next couple days around 30,000 refugees fled to Russia.
Failed Georgian assault turned to informational blackout and devilish propaganda. It’s time when so much depends on your personal position! I believe that there will be journalists who can give objective picture of these events. I believe in people of peace who will regard an attempt of massive extermination of small nation as genocide (3% of South Ossetins and 0.3% of all Ossetins worldwide were killed in just one night on August 8; fascists have never achieved that efficiency in exterminating Jewish people even when Auschwitz and Treblinka were working at full capacity). I believe in a world community that will view Sukashvili’s inhuman orders as war crime and an outrage on humanity. I believe in you, thinking person, able to confront with facts, person who will not follow barefaced propaganda of politicized and deeply corrupt media, person able to recognize truth!
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