Armenia-Turkey: historic document is being signed, so what’s the fuss?

The two-part document calling for normalization and regulating various aspects of Armenian-Turkish relations is being signed today in Zurich between the foreign ministers of Armenia and Turkey. As a guarantor of the importance attached to the protocols, the US Secretary of State Hilary Clinton will attend the event, so will a number of other major figures.
The protocols can and are being criticized in Armenia, Turkey and Azerbaijan, which is a sure sign, that the documents are indeed a result of compromise.
Meanwhile, Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnaktsutiun), is living through a period of revitalization – the party is organizing protest actions, rallies not only in Armenia, but abroad. It was surely expected, that the party, which exists primarily for fulfilling the “Hay Dat”, Armenia’s call for justice against the Ottoman Empire, would be energized in the wake of signing the protocols. Meanwhile, the fashion in which ARF is protesting leads onlookers with the feeling, that the Dashnaks don’t believe in their protests themselves, but they just have to do it.
Frankly, I’m glad to know, they the ARF protests will have no impact, glad to know, that for once the monopolization of political power is going to render results and president Sarkissian with his Republican party will push forward with signing the deal. In fact, this is one of the rare cases, where I wholeheartedly welcome the policy the government is implementing.
PS: I’m having to go through a great amount of effort to write this entry, as I’m locked in the hospital with “Hepatitis A”, with nearly no access to internet. So, today, let’s become a little more optimistic and hope, that with signing of the protocols, something big and positive will indeed change in the Caucasus.

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22 thoughts on “Armenia-Turkey: historic document is being signed, so what’s the fuss?

  1. I agree with you. I think this is a painful process and a difficult one but something which will eventually benefit Armenia in the long run. I could be wrong, there are risks for all parties in this move, but this is my opinion and I should not be called tavajan for it.

  2. it’s interesting for someone who’s been crying foul by this regime all this time, now you’re helping the information blockade of what is really being forced on Armenia with the conditions of this protocol. Perhaps you don’t care for Mount Ararat, Ani, Kars nor any other territories Armenia has never before signed off to Turkey. The rest of see a clear difference between opening borders, but not caving into the pressure of giving up land rights and genocide recognition forced by Turkey/US/Europe on a weak unelected Armenian president. Those Armenians who support this protocol on these terms are committing treason and will be held accountable.

    1. Armen, I criticize actions of the authorities, not their personalities.

      And I see signing of protocols as a positive action of the authorities – so why would I criticize it when so many others are earning themselves ‘cheep name of patriots’ anyway?

      >Perhaps you don’t care for Mount Ararat, Ani, Kars nor any other territories Armenia has never before signed off to Turkey.

      Re your point here, please, let’s be realistic. What land claims? Do you want those lands with 20 million Kurds on them striving for independence? No? Than please stop this unreasonable debate… and the protocols don’t ‘sign off’ anything, despite what Dashnaks and opposition are claiming.

      I have yet to see reasonable objections to this protocols.

      1. how selfish of observer to speak on behalf of Armenians regarding land claims. The comment regarding kurds on that land is foolish, it shows the level of elementary thinking and needs no response. As for not finding reasonable objections to the protocols, perhaps observer should learn a bit about diplomacy and what a capitulation agreement looks like. Why is Armenia being forced to recognize today’s turkey’s borders when clearly there are issues just like many other countries that have similar border issues with neighbors, yet they have normal relations. Territorial integrity can be recognized and have normal relations without having to recognize exact borders like Turkey is forcing on Armenia. As for studying the history without any time limits mentioned in the protocol, if by now you can’t comprehend why Turkey is forcing that on Armenia and the results it will have, perhaps you should not comment on politics at all. You may learn a bit more by watching this clip by Oskanian:

        1. Andranik, I don’t speak on behalf of all Armenians. I only speak for myself.

          I have a question. You said:
          >The comment regarding kurds on that land is foolish, it shows the level of elementary thinking and needs no response.

          Why doesn’t it need a response? If you ask me, this is one of the most essential questions. More specially, those Armenians, who speek of territorial claims from Turkey – how exactly do they see it in practice?

          1. First of all for anyone to give up their rightful demands and struggle based on any single obstacle, is a sign of failure and loss of hope. No nation can survive by giving up hope for the improvement of its future. Armenia cannot afford to have loser mentalities such as yours and expect to become a strong nation. As for how the Kurdish issue is dealt with, the scenarios are numerous and that’s where good diplomacy will be needed. The diplomacy can start with the basic favorable facts that Kurds are nearly half of Turkey’s population, they lack freedoms and desire sovereignty. But of course before all Armenia must NOT cut off all hope and chance for the future, as they’re doing now. We must improve our economy with what we have, that is giving diaspora incentives for immigration and investments and developing every single square meter of land in Armenia with agriculture or other means of wealth creation. Land brings prosperity and security.

  3. I am just wondering why Obama’s administration has been pushing this so hard? Who and which company is behind this push? someone will be getting very very rich over this…time will tell. Here is an excerpt from Washington Post:

    A day earlier, Obama called Armenian President Serge Sarkisian to “commend him for his courageous leadership” on the issue, according to a White House statement — yet another gentle push.

    Clinton has made 29 calls to the parties involved this year in her efforts to promote a settlement.

    Here is the link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/10/AR2009101002300.html

    1. I agree. I get suspicious whenever politicians claiming to be disinterested seem to want something this badly. Obama, Clinton and their cronies are getting something out of this or they wouldn’t be so motivated.

  4. Just to say (second time this week!), not the usual Ani who says hello here ;) and no, I haven’t started a blog named Obama Gaffes…

  5. Ditord – sorry to hear that you are in the hospital, your efforts to continue to post while sick are appreciated ;)
    My concern is not so much that we are negotiating with Turkey. My concern is the way it is being done and who is doing it. I think that Sargsyan is compromised as a politician, and therefore can be/has been/will be forced to make concessions that would not otherwise be made.
    Additionally, combining so many of the issues important to Armenia today — NK, Genocide, Turkish-Armenian relations — into one package, will drag them all down together.

    1. Unfortunately for Armenia, the phrase “the best and the brightest” cannot be used to describe the government team at the helm. I guess now that the Diaspora has at last discovered that fact; would that they had noticed sooner. I think everyone here hopes for a positive result from these negotiations, but realizes how difficult that is.

  6. I can not believe in my eyes, when I read the territorial claims about the eastern Turkey. Where do you live? 90 years ago because of irrational Armenian nationalism, hundreds of thousands Armenians died and they lost everything. Now there are only 2 million Armenians in Armenia. Do you really believe that one day you will get back eastern Anatolia? Could you please tell me how are you going to do it?
    For the recent developments, Turkey is contolling the whole process because Ankara is sick of “genocide” proposals in the European parliament and Ankara realized that becuase of the blockade and closed borders it can not influence Armenian politics. Soon Armenia will leave the Azerbaijani regions outside of Karabakh except Lachin and the border will be opened. In 5 years Turkey will be the largest trade partner in Armenia. Turkish companies will invest millons of dollars in Armenia. İn 5 years, there will be a Turkish lobby in Armenia. Turkey will be the most important factor in Armenian politics and economy. Armenia will be conquered by investment, finance and money. Not wıth guns and tanks. Welcome to capitalism my Armenian friends.

  7. Actually our Turkish friend, if things play out properly, Armenia will become the crossroads for trade between East and West, and Armenians will become what they historically were for the Turks: the bankers and financiers, the doctors, the publishers and intellectuals, the architects, etc. In that context everyone will win.

  8. Yes exactly. Who wins in this situation? Armenians? No. Turks? No. Azeris? No. We both have to read and read the relations between France and Germany after WWII and how they formed the EU.

  9. Why wasn’t oskanyan talking about these things when he actually could do something? This is even more confusing. Everyone wants to put their bulls*** out there so that everyone gets confused. Mr. Oskanyan, it is too late for you to come out like this, you could do that before Serj’s elections not now. It is like saying “I was having fun when I could f*** my people but since now I am not the one doing the f*****, let me tell you that it is immoral”. Good lesson in morality.

  10. 1- He has no national roots, no national identity. Typical ‘Internationalist’ aparatchik of the USSR, educated and performed for the USSR, as a communist.
    2- He is married with a Russian lady, daughter of Yevgeni Primakov, well known Russian Foreign Minister, who nearly succeeded in surrendering Artsakh to Baku a couple of years ago. Plan failed thanks to US intervention then…
    3- He never lived in Armenia with his family.
    4- He was ambassador in Egypt at the beginning of Armenia’s independance, since he lost his job in USSR, and Levon gave him this.
    Armenians in Egypt called him the Pharaon, as he used to party and spend the poor Armenian taxpayer’s thinly budget’s money back Then, when 1000 USD was worth a T-72 in Artsakh.
    5- He then had the prestigious (i.e.=glamorous) job of Ambassador in France, thank’s to Primakov’s intervention with Robert Kotcharian.
    Primakov was asking then already the post of Foreign minister for his son in low (those days Primakov was N 2 in Russia), and as a consolation, his daughter was spared the hard life in Yerevan for luxury life in central Paris.
    6- This Ambassador was nick-named ’starlet’ by French Armenians+ Armenian Embassy employees, since his only obsession was to be ’shut’ in every possible occasion before cameras, no matter he knew the guy, or contributed to the event… thus he loved photos with Chirac, (major negator of Genocide Bill then), and sent it to Yerevan with Label in media ‘Nalbantian managed to pass Genocide Bill in Paris with his meeting with Chirac’, while he had no implication whatsoever with the recognition process…., or self attributed every action done by French Armenians in his reports to Yerevan, while he never met a single Armenian organization, etc…
    7- He used to receive back in 1999 30000 USD from FA ministry’s budget, every month, for his family expenses: private apartment in face of Eiffel tower, while rich Armenians used till then to host the Embassy and ambassador gratis, sending his children in private schools, luxury Mercedes, etc…
    8- When he finally got his job of Minister, long promised, his wife and children, REMAINED in Paris, in their Luxurious apartments, and Mr the Minister visits them regularly/15 days… see his travel routes, systematically he makes a ‘working stop’ in Paris!
    9- For months after his nomination, he refused to name an Ambassador in Paris, to keep his beloved glamorous place and material advantages for himself… since Yerevan was too hard a place for such a Sugar boy!
    10- Once Chirac said sarcastically to Armenian Community representatives: ‘What Independent Armenia are you talking about? You are kidding or what? You are supposed to be independent for 10 years now, but your Ambassador travels with a ‘RUSSIAN DIPLOMATIC PASSPORT’ when he enters customs services in Charles de Gaulle Airport’!!!
    This is the man!
    Nothing Armenian in him.
    What do you expect?

  11. Best of luck, ditord, trying to analyze policy options or fact. Unfortunately people on blogs like to character assassinate or play judge and decide who is a traitor or hero.

    Methodology is: see who the players are taking actions, then attack or defend the action depending on who the person is, not what the action taken.

    Result: a cesspool of argumentation devoid of rationality and whose only outcome is division and intolerance.

  12. for me, Turket is an enemy state, and we, armenians have got some issues to solve with this state, therefore, any act of sign off, or accord with Turkey that recognizes its current borders or agrees to discuss “historic events (aka Genocide)” is treason. Yes, Serjik and his puppet Nalbandian are traitors, or collaborators with the enemy, you can;t have one faction fighting the turkish state and another shaking hands and laughing together with Abdulla Gul…
    there should have been a balanced policy, a well-thought and planned and based on consultation with all concerned parties (..yes diaspora as well),
    so, the contents of protocols are not acceptable for me, also the way these protocols were negotiated, signed and declared was unacceptable for me, also the way the armenian state under serjik lied, maneuvered, and treated us, protesters after delcaring the protocols was not acceptable,

    thus , the only “tangible” thing that those protocols did so far, is to divide this tiny nation of ours thanks to serjik and his FA advisers

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