Recent trends and developments in the Armenian blogosphere, whereby a range of extremely intolerant propaganda-blogs have sprang up, and have started attacking all and everyone around in the blogosphere – have taken the fun away from blogging. Instead of being the enjoyable personal hobby it once was, blogging now is increasingly becoming a risky business, a hostile environment, where you risk being attacked and harassed for your views.
Of course there was the trend, where “patriots” were attacking “liberals” in the blogosphere, and people were grouping together according to personal linking-disliking long before all these propaganda blogs had sprang up. But before – that was all a natural process, it was as any society works, and people were blogging, because they liked it. Today, as we see an increasing number of blogs, whose authors are blogging, not because they like to, but because they are assigned the task of posting all kinds of propaganda pieces by pro-Levon or pro-Serzh forces, including State Security services, I wonder, if they can be considered blogs at all? The way I see it – they are more like campaign posters or propaganda leaflets. At any rate, here is a list of blogs, which I have blacklisted so far, as they fall under the classification of non-blogs, or propaganda blogs, or agit-blogs – call them the way you like it:
1. http://azat2008.livejournal.com
2. http://countrev.livejournal.com
3. http://ppmv.livejournal.com
4. http://libero_am.livejournal.com
5. http://www.levonforpresident.com/am/33/
6. http://gazan2008.livejournal.com
7. http://winner2008.livejournal.com
8. http://azgainakan.livejournal.com
There are some 3-4 more, about which I have suspicions, but will not post here, until I have more evidence of them being commissioned to write by Levon’s team or Serzh’s minions. In fact, I have no such evidence about these ones either. But – these are the more suspicious ones so far. And I’m sure you have noticed more of these, so please kindly let me know about them in the comments section of this post. As to the rest of the REAL bloggers out there – my suggestion is let’s ignore all these fake blogs, these empty shells, because once the campaign is over, they will be gone, and we will stay. And we will feel ashamed for being artificially dragged into this whirlpool of black PR using blogs. Dear blogger-friends – beware! The Big Brothers are watching us!
Artur Papyan
Journalist, blogger, digital security and media consultant
66 Comments
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I thought Gazan2008 was one of your favorite blogs. 😉
Actually – the discussion we had this morning provoked me into doing some research, as a result of which this post was born.
And Gazan2008 – was never one of my favorite blogs 🙁 I just said this particular point of view it had expressed, which also concerned me personally, as I am a “Sksela” member, sounded similar to what I feel, so I gave it some prominence. There is also another aspect of it – when I report about one of the sides – I usually try to bring the opinion of the other as well, so my articles are not one sided. And that particular post was actually written for the Echannel.am analysis section, so I was trying to be objective.
I have a list of additionally 20 (apprx) blogs. Will chek and give you in Monday 🙂
PPMV-MMZ-PPZ!!!
P.S. One correction. At this moment we are Big Brothers. Still 🙂 Lets open comunity – BigBrothersWatchdog 🙂 BBW
I’m glad you pointed these out.
You know, we kind of get into a strange situation here. I mean, blogs are in general opinionated and you would expect the same during elections, especially. So, I would say that being set up by either Serge’s or Levon’s minions is not an issue here as long as they don’t focus on making personal attacks or encouraging hatred and malice. Otherwise, isn’t this censorship?
Really, sorry, but I feel quite strongly about this. The blogs shouldn’t be blacklisted, but more known for being partisan or whatever (although we both know more blogs which fit into that category). I think they should still take their place, but the information contained on their pages considered keeping their political affiliation in mind. When we do that, we can try to ascertain what is good information or bad. I don’t know, when you get to blacklisting blogs EXCEPT for really persecuting individuals for no reason other than they don’t agree with you, I think it’s dangerous and also not keeping with the spirit and purpose of blogging, but anyway. Just my 2 cents.
Do you see a pattern between some of those blogs – i.e. ending in 2008? I bet all the xxxx2008 blogs are anti-LTP.
re: “The blogs shouldn’t be blacklisted, but more known for being partisan or whatever (although we both know more blogs which fit into that category).”
I agree with Onnik.
Onnik – perhaps you’re right. Actually – not perhaps, you’re right! When I say blacklisting – it doesn’t mean anything 🙂 It just means being cautious about what they write. It also means avoiding the provocations that these blogs/bloggers are trying to drag everyone into.
I agree, that political blogs have a right to live. The more of them, the better. However, it seems strange to me to find only two distinct flavors: the pro-levon and pro-serzh/counter-levon types. Why isn’t there anything in between? Who is trying to make sure that the blogs look exactly like the media landscape? Isn’t it strange, that there is no single political blog with pro-Raffi Hovhannisyan or pro-Artur Baghdasaryan stance? I see fake – and my call is not to attack them, but simply, to be careful with them, and avoiding their provocations. I have really strong suspicions, that some of them report to the State Security/KGB guys, call me paranoid if you will…
PS: and after all – I’m just one of the 1000. What does it matter what I say? Maybe one of these blogs – say PPMV or CounterRev can write a post in response and call me a Russian spy?
After all the shit these guys are writing about Serzh and Levon, I’m starting to actually like both Serzh and Levon! Let’s not forget, that even black PR is PR in the end!
Of course, you realize they’re all now getting increased hits now you’ve mentioned them so a kind of positive-negative blacklisting 😉
Anyway, re. “until I have more evidence of them being commissioned to write by Levon’s team or Serzh’s minions.”
What do you mean?
That they’re actually being paid to write partisan propaganda pieces?
I suppose that’s no different from some pro-government and pro-opposition media, but how do you find that kind of thing out?
Regardless, I think even propaganda has its uses. Sure, most of the time it’s probably aiming to mislead and influence, although that gives a great insight into a campaign strategy, but on the other hand, what about when they do have something worth quoting.
It might happen. Personally, I’d treat any blogs I don’t trust carefully until such a time when they have something really interesting to say. Even when quoting you can still identify the affiliation of the blogger.
Anyway.
Really poignant question and I’d love to know the answer, but let me hazard a quess (just my opinion and many won’t agree). Their campaigns are not based on solid platforms — just vote for me because he is worse.
They can’t do that with the other candidates so much (well, Geghamian, yes, and Manukian got his share of trouble) and both Levon and Serge are relying on getting people to hate the other to get support.
Some of the other guys, perhaps, are too busy campaigning, but you’re right, this black PR is really confusing the shit out of me and actually distracting from the main point of an election — making an informed choice.
To a certain extent, among a certain amount of people, it’s working. Serge relies on it for increasing his support as does Levon. I still think that there is a huge mass of people in between though who are deprived of the right to be treated like normal citizens.
Still, that’s always been the case although it seems worse now.
Are you?
😉
Like I said – I started carefully looking into this array of newly registered blogs only after Nazarian started the discussion about Gazan2008. I remembered Samvel Martirosyan / Kornelij Glas mentioning, that there is a strange group of bloggers, all registered with names 2008 – and looking really suspicion. Then I read his analytical article on Echannel once again, and decided to take a fresh new look into them and the comments they are making on various blogs.
This post was my first reaction to my findings – a bit emotional perhaps. Perhaps I should have given more thought before posting anything, and perhaps then I would have thought about your counter arguments, but heck! This is a blog, and if I can post something and then get your comments to enhance my thinking process, why not? This way we are collectively thinking about the problem of this newly registered propaganda blogs. All of us together are creating a piece of analytical material and forming and understanding, which will in the end be much deeper, then if each of us tried to analyze and think about them separately. This is exactly why I like blogging!
hmmm… am I a Russian spy?
I honestly don’t know. But I’ve heard these Russians are so good with training spies, that perhaps I wouldn’t even know if I were, would I? :))))))) Spying would just be planted into my subconsciousness, and when Putin needs me, he’d just press a button to activate my spying self 😉
PS: I should check what they’re paying me for that. I’m sure those bloody Russians are cheating me, and paying much less then I’m worth, looooooooooooool
В сложившейся ситуации, когда на всех практически порталах где присутствуют армянские пользователи ведется борьба, не только политическая но и принципиальная, с вашей стороны проведение такого качества исследований
весьма полезно и способствует расширению вовлеченности в интернет сообщество все большего количества людей.
Однако выводы сделанные вами в процессе проведенного исследования, показывают на тот факт, что сами вы не являясь еще в достаточной степени беспристрастным исследователем и аналитиком, даете поспешные оценки и не обоснованные выводы.
Однако я со своей стороны хотел бы выразить вам благодарность за своего рода пиар, так как вследствии вашего поста в некоторых интернет изданиях и на вашем блоге, резко возросла популярность моего блога на ЖЖ и его рейтинг. И я как честный человек не могу не признать действенность вашей тактики. Спасибо.
Что же касательно того, что по окончании выборов пройдет юпидемия вымирания блогов, названых вами в вашей статье, то чтож, предлагаю вам встретиться в апреле или в мае, тогда и поговорим… А если у вас все же есть сомнения в том что я на самом деле личность и человек, а не робот, то мы можемвстретиться и раньше.
Относительно же некоторых выпадов ваших комментаторов и читателей,сомневающихся в моем душевном здоровье, чтож перчатка поднята – вызов принят. И я не собираюсь отвечать на грязь грязью…
Gazan2008 – blogging for me is the testing ground – I try ideas here, I get feedback. And only after all that I make my final conclusions. The good thing about blogs is they’re not print media, they’re subjective, and they’re meant to be so. Sometimes I deliberately create little provocations to see how different bloggers will behave. Based on all of the above, I make the more solid conclusions, which then I can publish in a more respectable resource – a newspaper, electronic media, radio, etc. By the way – tomorrow, at 11:00 on radio hay 104.1 you can also listen to the radio program about blogging, based on my articles 😉
The whole purpose of this blog from the very start has been promotion of the blogosphere and blogging in Armenia. But I stand for promoting REAL blogs and bloggers, not robots. I understand fully well, that sometimes there is a need for being anonymous – and I can respect that.
However, I am watching these blogs, registered with the pattern xxxxx2008 – watching your tactics – which is much cleverer, then that of PPMV – I can conclude, that you’re not new to blogging, and know very well how to look your way.
You guys look like a group of well organized hijackers, and you’re just getting started. Moreover, I’m sure, that you all have another well established and recognized blogs (or perhaps you are all one person?). For your case for example – you have registered this anonymous Gazan2008 to write all the black PR stuff you’ve been told to write, and then discard the blog when it is not necessary anymore. You write well – I admit, and I’ve quoted and translated a large chunk of what you’ve said in an earlier post.
Now I’ve made this so called “black list”. Let’s say – it was a provocation, and I was really interested in watching your feedback 😉
The thing is – I will continue reading all of the mentioned blogs – but I will ignore you, unless there is again something really worth mentioning. However, things like “Levon is Jew” and “Serzh is Gharabakhci” kind of shit is something, that I’ll try to avoid at any cost, especially if they come from one of the mentioned blogs, which I consider highly partizan.
I also have suspicions, that KGB are paying you and the other lot for writing Anti-Levon stuff. I’d actually be really interested to know – how much? :)))
Gazan2008 – re the possibility to meet I’d actually really like to meet if possible. How about meeting for a beer at Shamrock on Saryan street on Tuesday, at 18:30? Bring friends if you like, and I’ll bring a couple of other bloggers, and we can all have a nice friendly chat!
Perhaps you are not KGB after all, and even if you are, oh well, I can drink a cup of tee with a KGB guy – no problem, I have friends there too 😉
Didn’t understand a word of the Russian, but I was going to suggest the same thing. I’d like to be there to meet as well. Hope that’s ok.
Also:
You’ve brought this all out into the open and now we can perhaps understand the dynamics of what’s going on. I think that’s to be welcomed, in fact.
Great advert for blogging and transparency, to be honest. 🙂
[…] Armenian Observer posts an interesting entry on the continuing politicization of the local blogosphere ahead of next month’s presidential […]
К моему величайшему сожалению начало недели у меня полностью забито, и график уже не изменить, по причине незапланированных праздничных понедельников. Посему, если вас так не затруднит, не моглибы мы перенести нашу встречу на следующую неделю?
Кстати мне действительно льстит такое внимание к моей фигуре, однако мне не понятен ажиотаж вокруг нашей встречи и желание присутствовать на ней большого количества ваших друзей и знакомых.
If you think, that your the Messiah and the Saviour of the blogosphere, you’r totally wrong and this is a free space to share oru ideas, and noone, including you, can use black PR propaganda tools against us.
As for me, I know very well who you are and that is why I don’t tke it to seriously, though it might b considered as a personal offense towards us. Let’s remain civilized people and try to respect each others’ views on politics and social developments in Amrnia.
Best regards,
Countrev
Gazan2008 – my phone number is: 091838436. SMS me or give me a call when you have a minute and we’ll meet and have a beer. I just thought it would be more fun if there were friends, but I respect your right to remain anonymous. So we can meet on any day/time/location that you tell me, of course if there are no other appointments.
Countrev – I’m too young to be the Messiah and the Saviour :))))) I don’t have long hair and beard anymore, and I’m only 30, unlike the Messiah – who was 33 😉
Like I said – you’re quite right. I have no right to monopolize the right to blog and express opinions. And I’ve already written in a comment above, that it was indeed a mistake. On the other hand, I am not attacking the political views of any of you guys. I’m just saying, that what you are doing is not blogging – it is something like doing a campaign poster. Anyway – not to repeat myself – please take your time to look through the comments that went on above. However, I’m warning all the bloggers to be careful and watch out at what you are posting. You may know by now, that we know all bloggers by name, we are all friends and one community, even though we might have cardinally different views about politics. However, I care about making sure, that our friendship remains within limits, and with provokers and agitators like PPMV and yourself, we don’t loose that dear part of us.
As to criticisms and comments – they are most welcome. After all that is why I wrote this post – to see how you, PPMV and the rest of these newly established blogs will behave, and thus try to find out, how civilized all of you will behave when the campaign gets into real heat. I think I had every right to do this provocation, as you have the right to do what you’re doing.
PS: I consider blogging for money – without believing in what you’re writing, unethical. However, if you are blogging about what you believe in, and someone is willing to pay for that – I can accept and respect that.
Aper, es bot chem, bajc botin havasar tgha em- nenc wor es el em gali piwi! 🙂
Հարգարժան դիտորդ,
Եթե կարծում եք որ մենք թաքնվում ենք, կամ թաքցնում ենք մեր ինքնությունն ու հայացքնրը, ստօպված եմ լինելու Ձեզ հիասթափեցնել: Ոչ, թաքնվելու խնդիր չկա, ավելին իմաստ չկա, ումից, կամ ինչից թաքնվել: Իմ հայացքները պարզ արտահայտված են իմ բլոգում ու որևէ մեկի մոտ երկարի մեկնաբանությունների տեղիք չեն կարող տալ: Իմ ցանկացած գրած խոսք ու բառ բխում է իմ համոզմունքներից:
Ես ուրախ եմ, որ ընդունել եք ձեր բացթողումը, ավելին, կարծում եմ, կարող ենք ժամանակի ընթացքում վերածվել բավական կառուցողական ու հետաքրքիր զրուցակիցների, հակառակորդների կամ համախոհների:
Ես, իհարկե, շնորհակալ եմ, որ դուք, կամա թե ակամա գովազդեցիք իմ բլոգը, չնայած առավելապես սև ու անհաճո պիտակներով, բայց ամեն դեպքում, դա նշանակում է, որ շատ ավելի շատ մարդիկ հնարավորություն կունենան նրա բովանդակության հետ ծանոթանալու:
Ձեր մյուս բլոգում ես արդեն արտահայտել եմ իմ կարծիքը, որը բնավ չի տարբերվում, իմ թեկուզ փոքր ինչ հուզականորեն արտահայտված տեսակետից, որը տեղ է գտել այստեղ: Հարկ չկա այն կրկնել կամ ապացուցել, որ իմ բլոգի հետևում ոչ թե ինչ որ ռոբոտներ են, այլ իրական մարդ:
Ինչ վերաբերվում է իմ բլոգում տեղ գտած նյութերին, չկա որևէ բան, որ փաստերով հիմնավորված չլինի, փաստեր, որոնք մեծ սիրով կարող եմ տեղադրել իմ բլոգի էջերում:
Իսկ արդեն քաղաքական դիրքորոշումներ ունենալն իմ, ձեր, անգամ ppmv-ի)))) սահմանադրական իրավունքն է: Ի դեպ, անգամ վերջինիս հետ ես աշխատում եմ անձնական հարթություն չտեղափոխել քաղաքական հակասությունները: Չեմ անվանարկում կամ պիտակավորում նրան, /գոնե վերջերս/:
Կարծում եմ, ձեր կողմից ամենաճիշտ քայլը կլիներ այլ քննարկում նախաձեռնել, որտեղ Ձեր իսկ կողմից կշտապբանքի արժանացած օրագրերի հեղինակները կներկայացնեին, թե ինչու են որդեգրել այս կամ այն դիրքորոշումը:
Այդ ու ցանկացած այլ հարցող, կարող եք վստահաբար հենվել իմ անշահախնդիր ու բարեկամական աջակցության վրա:
Հարգանքով,
Հակահեղափոխական
REGARDING MONEY- I make my living NOT with blogging and I do not need money to writ the things I believe in.
There are still some unpaid bloggers and I share the honor to be one of them.
Sincerely,
Countrev
Artur djan,bajc du indz tvir ancar provokatorutyamb:))) Inch es glux drel zombineri het?:)) Kstati gzhanoc aradjark unem,ari es u du mi hat dashnakbot sarkenq u sranc vra kajfer brnenk,inch es mtacum?:)))
Isk lurdj asac,es orer em hashvum,erb a es amen inche verjanalumnanq menq u meronq.
P.S. Isk vor piva xmenq aranc boteri,dra vra vonc es najum?:)
Tigran jan, piva yerb ases gnanq xmenq – mecaguyn hachuyqov. Apsos hingshabti chkaroghaca gal.
Zombinery parzvum e aynqan el zombi chen, lav el humorov joghovurd durs ekan.
Isk dashnakcakan boty lav mitqa, bayc yerevi aveli arji botuhi?
Hi Observer
http://www.levonforpresident.com/am/33/ or http://blog.levonforpresident.com is a supporter blog and is no propaganda blog. I am the owner of this blog and I have neither received any propaganda directions nor been paid for my work.
I publish any comments be that pro or anti Levon.
Please dont spread rumours without haveing any facts.
On another note, a person from every generation of my family (both mother’s and father’s side) been blacklisted starting with my fathers grand dad who has been sent to Siberia. I guess now I am the one from the youngest generation 🙂 I take it as a compliment.
By the way I thought that you were more of a Libertarian rather than a Nazional Socialist (Dashnak).
By the way, the reason that I support LTP is because I dont see any other person defeating Serje. And I also liked his very socialist programme.
If Serje comes to power we might loose Armenia in a Black Jack session in Monte Carlo or Baden -Baden (to put is simply).
Haik – I must confess I had to think quite long about including your blog in this list or no, because your’s is quite different, on a different platform, etc, etc. However – while you call it a supporter blog, I call it a campaign-blog, that is to say a blog, which has been created especially for the purpose of campaigning, and which will be gone once the election campaign is over. In other words, it is not really a blog – but a campaigning tool – just like – printed posters, leaflets, TV advertisements, etc. There are bloggers, like Aramazd or Nazarian, who also support LTP – but I don’t include them in this list, because they are in my understanding, REAL bloggers – people, who have always had active stance and have been promoting them via blogging long before LTP announced about his coming.
I also wanted, quite sincerely, to send my word of warning to all bloggers about the fact, that there are these temporary blogs, who are in most cases acting as organized groups of hijackers, and are injecting extreme positions into the blogosphere. I am not saying these blogs don’t have the right to do so. In fact – I’m encouraging them – by promoting – as was in the case of translating Gazan2008’s points of views, using information from your comments, for example about the fact, that LTP’s speech is online, etc., or speaking about the “politicized” blogosphere and bringing examples like PPMV, your blog, CounterRev’s blog. While I admit the right of all these blogs to promote their views, I also use my right of spreading my views, according to which, blogs represent highly biased points of views, and information coming from those sources should be treated with caution.
Another issue, which I was and am trying to address, is the issue of paid posting. I think it is quite acceptable to be paid for blogging – blogging is hard work after all, but only as long as it doesn’t limit the blogger’s freedom, and doesn’t force the blogger write stuff, that s/he doesn’t believe in. We had been hearing rumors, that as of late, there are cases, when bloggers were offered payment to write posts, specifically against Levon Ter-Petrossian, Serzh Sargsyan, Vazgen Manukyan, etc. Those were rumors – and I decided to throw those rumors out in the open, and watch the reaction. Call it a provocation if you like – but I think blogs are the most suitable place to discuss such issues, and it brings a lot more transparency. Quite honestly, I don’t care if you or CountRev are paid or no – but I find it important, that this concept would be discussed among the bloggers, and each one could decide for themselves, what is wrong, and what is right.
There is one other important aspect of this list I put up – my blog has a rather high Technorati rating (39 at the moment of writing) and Google Page Rank (4 at the moment of writing). By writing this list of blogs and providing links to your blogs – I am actually doing you guys a big favor – this is really genuine PR, and you should understand that. My blog is long established and much more credible, than any of the listed blogs, and when looking at them, Google doesn’t care about how negative or postive I am in describing your blog, as long as I provide a link to it. Google will thus start treating your blog with more respect. I’m sure you’re advanced enough in technological sense, to understand what I mean 😉
Speaking about my being Libertarian, Dashnak, etc. – this is what I have to say.
a) I am indeed support Armenian Revolutionary Federation – because I think, that over the past 20 years they have been the most consistent party, they have operated indeed like a party. I have very good friends among Dashnaktsutyun members, and I see, that inside, the party indeed operates democratically, there are internal mechanisms for people to affect the party policies. This is not a personified party – and even though I don’t really like Vahan Hovhannisyan, I would vote for him, because by doing so, I’m voting for the only real party in this country. I quite sincerely think, that above all, we need party based politics in this country, not person-based parties.
b) Dashnaktsutyun represents an understandable foreign policy for me. I think, that under the current circumstances throughout the world, the Dashnaktsutyun line is the strongest, and even though I’m sure they won’t win in these elections, I want to vote for them, and by doing so, give a weight to their arguments about the need to go away from the complimentary-idiosincracy, which is leading us into acting like slaves to everyone, instead of serving our own national interest.
c) I am quite libertarian in my overall understanding of economy, however, at this point, and under current circumstances, I see a distinct need for socialist policies, because libertarian policies only work in a highly democratic state which supports free markets. However, as long as we don’t have the democratic state and free markets, and even if Jesusm himself tries to establish it in Armenia, there will be 5-10 years more, before the mentioned institutions reach such a level, where the need for socialist practices is eliminated. Hence – I’ll vote for Dashnaktsutyun, with their socialist policies and a type of mechanism in the party, whereby the enhances scope of state can be kept in check at least by the internal structure of the party and the Diaspora influence on it, rather then go unchecked, as it is now.
Your posting was very provocative indeed 🙂
Yes my blog and the site all together is a campaign site and was built for that purpose only the domain name is enough to demonstrate that.
However it is not a fake blog and the whole site is 100% independent. The bloggers really believe in what they are writing there and these are their words (you can find posted by Aramazd, Bekaisia and me), none of us were forced to write, given scripts or been paid ( I dont know why MIAK came into my mind ) 🙂
Putting it in a blacklist or among other sites which are made up (allegedly) is probably not that nice as it may have a negative impact on its creditability.
On the other hand you have the right to express you opinion and I am very happy that I can freely do it in your blog as well (hence this comment). Let the people visit the http://www.levonforpresident.com blog to judge themselves.
Coming to the longevity of the site, I am not quite sure what will be its character after Feb 19. but I am quite sure it will still exist and get updated even if LTP wins.
regards,
Haik
Haik, maybe you can keep the site for LTP’s second term 😉
Ditord, you really take a role of Messiah… That is very strange!!! I don’t think you have a right to put something like censorship in the blogosphere, even if your blogs are one of the most “populated” in the armenian blogosphere. I think you need to apologize to all the mentioned blogholders. That would be the right way…
Ara – I apologize, no problem. I specifically find the following sentence as a mistake:
>As to the rest of the REAL bloggers out there – my suggestion is let’s ignore all these fake blogs, these empty shells, because once the campaign is over, they will be gone, and we will stay. I already recognized it as a mistake in the comments above, and I think I explained pretty well, why exactly I put out this list.
You see – I don’t mind accepting mistakes – but my initial intention when putting together this list was really far from censorship. In fact, somehow you guys all misunderstand it, but oh well, I apologize for your misunderstandings as well!
Ara, I think Observer reacted and we’re having this discussion now which is good. He has also admitted he over-reacted, but it’s also his right to speak his mind and it does raise the issue of political and propaganda blogging. However, where I disagree with Observer is that this was inevitable and is to be expected. I’m sure the U.S. Elections, for example, will have more than their fair share of partisan blogs than neutral ones, for example.
Nazarian, didn’t Levon say he was only coming back for 4 years and would then resign? Anyway, you confirmed my suspicions about that statement. Indeed, it was a strange campaign promise. Elect me and then I’ll go before my 5 year term is up. Even saying he would only stay in office for 5 years would have been more believable. I mean, what is that? I’ll stay in office for 4 years? Like the extra year would make a difference.
[…] Nazarian’s post is here. Like I said, such posts are welcomed because they truly illustrate the way in which Ter-Petrossian and his supporters are conducting their campaign. Of course, the prime minister’s supporters are also no different. Indeed, with most of the population stuck between the “lesser of two evils,” as Vazgen Manukian put it, the online campaign by both sides is now one of concern. […]
Still, not only does this online battle reflect part of the reality of the official pre-election campaign period, it also provides us with an interesting insight into mindset behind the Sargsyan and Ter-Petrossian campaign.
See:
http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/01/27/levon-ter-petrossian-campaign-gets-dirty-nervous/
Basically, discrediting and attacking Ter-Petrossian is seen as a way to secure a Sargsyan victory by his team, and for the former president, it is in lieu of being able to conduct any real and actual campaigning or to offer an alternative to the electorate.
Probably, the emergence of such blogs is intriguing to say the least. They also bring up associated matters such as copyright infringement and libel.
And incidentally, were it not for the black PR against Ter-Petrossian it’s doubtful that there would be much coverage of his campaign at all. Indeed, it’s almost as if they rely on it to a certain extent, but when there is independent but negative coverage, they react like a bull seeing red.
Onnik, if I am not mistaken, he said ‘Unite with me and I will resign in 3 years’.
I think he primarily addressed Raffi Hovhannisian. Since so far no one of the addresses has responded positively, the 3 year resignation is in the air. But it’s still too early. I think the addresses will see what happens after the first round of the vote and then try to negotiate their way with the remaining two contestants based on the number of votes they get.
As for negative publicity in the blogs, I think it’s a normal way of conducting a campaign and I don’t get upset at attacks on LTP. It’s probably my ‘American’ attitude towards campaigns. In Europe, and Armenia, negative ads are illegal. But there is no law against negative coverage in media and online.
It keeps the process going…
re: http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/01/27/levon-ter-petrossian-campaign-gets-dirty-nervous/
Onnik, thanks for the publicity. 🙂
Thanks for discrediting yourself and Ter-Petrossian’s campaign 😉
I’ll let the readers be the judge of that.
Onnik, Nazarian – I respect you guys very much, and it’s a pain for me to see this pointless argument you two are having. Why don’t you just stop it, without trying to find out who is wrong and who is right?
Great although I know what the response will be. Your gang of pro-Ter-Petrossian lobyists and propagandists will side with you because it doesn’t actually matter what the situation when their “majesty” is concerned.
Anyway, given that your site hardly has any readers and most of them are probably Ter-Petrossian activists or supporters, who actually cares ?
Observer, sorry, but when I am accused of attacking freedom of speech and censorship, yes, it does matter.
[…] in which supporters of former president Levon Ter-Petrossian and prime minister Serge Sargsyan to disseminate black propaganda and wonders if they shouldn't be blacklisted. Share […]
Incidentally, Observer, what you are requesting is precisely what Nazarian is refusing to do. That is, follow standard blogging etiquette which frowns on personal attacks by those commenting on blog posts. Very simply, if Nazarian hadn’t allowed his blog from becoming an attempt to discredit a photojournalist in Armenia by a member of Levon Ter-Petrossian’s campaign team then we wouldn’t be discussing this now. Hopefully, he will prevent that from happening which kind of makes it somewhat ironic that he removed the photos. When he did so, he signaled that he would allow his blog to be used in the service of his lord and master.
I think both of you are overreacting. And I don’t think you are right in speaking about “service of his lord and master”, because I have known Nazaryan as a very independent person generally, although quite sympathetic of LTP, which is his Divine right!
Anyway, I don’t see any point in letting you guys continue this discussion here, any further comments on this argument will be deleted, I will only perhaps allow Nazarian to defend himself with one comment after the 3 comments you have just made, and if he does so with reasonable degree of tact and within limits of what I consider ethical, I will let it be posted here.
Firstly, I don’t want to continue this discussion here. Moreover, while you have every right to delete comments here, this is precisely the sort of thing that your post is about in the first place. Censoring and deleting comments is precisely what both anti-democratic sides want anyway. I’d also add that while you think it is not right “in speaking about “service of his lord and master”” two points.
Firstly, you have already accused fellow bloggers of being in the pay of the KGB which really seems inappropriate and uncalled for especially when you haven’t produced any evidence to back up your claims and also, give the way that Nazarian is twisting my concerns about his blog being used to smear me and his simplistic attempt to accuse me of attacking freedom of speech, I think I have every right.
re: “I will only perhaps allow Nazarian to defend himself with one comment after the 3 comments you have just made”.
Nah, I’ll pass 🙂
Onnik – I had enough evidence to start this discussion, but my source won’t understand if I tried to open up brackets a little more. That is exactly why I wrote this provocative post instead of a more sound analyses.
actually – once we started speaking of that – i’ve never ever deleted any undesirable comments on any of my blogs.
barew dzez- es bot em 🙂
Thanks for worrying 🙂
Do they really think that could work? 🙂
so far bloggers have been generally ignoring the propaganda blogs. let’s see how everything will develop – the campaign is just getting into heat.
What’s the difference between opinion, support and propaganda? The difference to me is that the aim of the propaganda is to brainwash.
This is getting too far. the http://www.levonforpresident.com blog is not a propaganda blog, it is an opinion and support blog. If you could prove otherwise would you please elaborate? Otherwise I would appreciate if you could remove / cross it with an explaination from the above list.
If you could convince me and prove that it is a brainwashing or paid for or an artificiel blog I would delete and remove it from the Internet.
The blog is created that LTP supporters or NOT supporters could voice and share their opinions as the name of the blog suggests ( “Blog – Write your opinion” OR “Blog – Make your voice heard”)
Kind regards,
Haik
Observer, someone wrote the following:
“Anyway, given that your site hardly has any readers and most of them are probably Ter-Petrossian activists or supporters, who actually cares ?”
Just would like to mention that this is not the case, and you are really respected in the blogosphere, and it is always a pleasure to be hosted at your blog. Don’t pay attention to people full of mistrust, arrogance and poison! Just don’t!
What comes to your original post – you have the right to have your opinion, and it’s good you’ve allowed all to express their consent or disagreement with it.
Keep going, Observer, and well done!
Aramazd, your English-language skills or ability to comprehend it in written form are failing you. The reference to Ter-Petrossian readers were obviously not directed at Observer, they were directed at Nazarian.
I would of thought the context of the sentence referring to a reaction from his readers and me writing that would have been clear to people, but I guess not. Still, nice try.
😉
[…] սկանդալը անտարակույս Դիտորդ բլոգում հրապարակված Պրոպագանդիստական Բլոգերի Սեւ […]
Observer jan, didn’t you notice that there are different people posting in levonforpresident.com blog including me with a certain link on my livejournal blog. There is no anonymity and shouldn’t be any “worries”. Or you’ve mentioned that one to keep nowdays blessed parity? :))
However, I find all these classification and censorship (bots, robots, propagandists etc) discussions really alarming. Alarming in much wider context than just 2008 elections. Internet and blogosphere in particular is a free space and free realm and free chance for everyone to be or not to be whatever one wanna be. Doesn’t matter if he/she is a “boot”,”bot” or “paid spy” (even though i sincerely believe no one actually is). Who the hell cares? Who delivered the right to some users to be privileged ‘ինտերնետ նայողներ’ and make stupid classifications of real or unreal people? The rule of the game is more than simple and very fair – natural selection. Еvery one has a right for free expression (pro/contra/stupid/genius/ugly/boring/funny..) and everyone has a right to select blogs he/she wants to participate/read/ignore/ban/promote. To be good or bad, popular or unpopular. What else in this world can be better? What can be more acceptable for a real liberal person ?
Asking all this questions I just urge you: Don’t support censorship and control over free speech and over free internet, don’t pay a tribute to those who want to destroy one of the last bastions of freedom in the world. Let it fly; let it be as it is; let it die if it dies and live if there is possibility to. I say this with clear understanding that the majority of blogs you’ve mentioned ‘play’ against my political conviction, but even though I have no doubt that their free existence and their right to be are vital for everything I believe as a person and citizen. Don’t take me wrong but don’t follow this path it takes us back to era of control and censorship…
Well, I indeed included the levonforpresident.com blog for parity. And when making this post, I was really far from trying to promote censorship, etc. Later I understood, that it was clearly a mistake, but – on the other hand, I’m really glad we had this discussion. Despite all the arguments that we had in the comments above, I think, that it was very good I made this list and posted this provocative post – because there are things, that are better discussed, then left in silence and burried in gossip.
Agree-agree..;)
[…] bloggers responded, and supporters of both Ter-Petrossian and then prime minister, Serge Sargsyan, soon opened up new blogs on free weblog hosting services, but particularly on […]
Хотел узнать, а сайт популярный? Первый раз пишу, вот интересуюсь. Заранее спасибо