Strasbourg, 2 March 2008, “I am very concerned about the latest developments in Yerevan and the declaration of the state of emergency. I am shocked to learn that at least 8 people have been killed, and I call on the authorities to investigate all these deaths and the allegations of excessive use of force. Obviously, the investigations should focus on finding the perpetrators of crimes and should not be used to harass political opponents.
Both the authorities and the opposition should do everything they can to prevent any further violence.
I hope that the state of emergency will be lifted very soon. Meanwhile, I call on the authorities to review the justification for the restrictions imposed – especially on media, political parties and non-governmental organisations. These restrictions are an obstacle to political dialogue, which is the only way to find a political solution to the present situation.
The state of emergency suspends the application of several rights and freedoms protected by the European Convention on Human Rights. Under Article 15 of the Convention the Armenian Government must inform me of the measures which it has taken and the reasons therefor. I expect that they will do so without any delay.”
Artur Papyan
Journalist, blogger, digital security and media consultant
119 Comments
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U.S.-based group Human Rights Watch said police used excessive force at the demonstrations, detaining groups of protesters and beating them. “Armenian special police forces violently dispersed a rally … Dozens are reported to have sustained severe injuries and more than 100 protesters were arrested,” it said on Sunday.
The United States urged Armenia’s warring political forces to start talking after a night of rioting in which eight people were killed and dozens more injured.
The Europeans dropped the ball and they know it. Had they been more truthful in their initial assessment, we might not have had this situation. They emboldened the criminal duo.
As a response to Terry Davis, the autorities closed levonforpresident.am and continue to arrest LTP allies.
I’m astonished at the short-sightedness and sheep-likeness of the pro-LTP segment of the Armenian populace. How can they allowed themselves to be misled by a discredited, misanthropic politician who had himself exhibited all signs of utterly authoritarian rule, imposition of misery, desolation, and impoverishment on the people whilst attaining self-enrichment for himself? Was it not Ter-Petrossian who introduced falsification and vote-rigging back in 1996 when the obvious winner was Vazgen Manoukian?
We, as a nation, need to understand that the “second coming” of this freemasonic puppet has been ordered by those secret societies, supra-national, supra-governmental internationalist power elites, who direct the events on the world arena, including national elections, for the sake of attaining their sick goal of one world government. It is not a conspiracy theory: it is a fact that becomes more and more obvious in our world order.
I believe LTP was ordered back to Armenia’s political life for two main reasons.
One was to galvanize Armenian electorate which showed strong signs of apathy and disgruntlement during the preceding constitutional referendum. Hence, his return would stir up the electorate en masse so that the candidate pre-selected by these supra-national elites, could have falsified the outcome of the election with ease. Clearly, it is much harder to rig the elections under the conditions of nearly total civil disobedience. Their pre-selected candidate, make no mistake, is Serj Sarkissian.
Second reason is that in order to conceal the fact that Serj is their pre-selected candidate, these forces needed to set up a mirage of a “political struggle,” but in such a manner that the second contender, too, be their own choice. This method is as old as the world: to bring two seemingly contending candidates to the fore both of whom are subservient to the same string-pullers behind their backs.
The Armenians would have shown cleverness and ingenuity had they totally neglected and boycotted these elections, showing once again that they understand that both Levik and Serjik are not public-spirited politicians. Unfortunately, one cannot expect the same level of wisdom and shrewdness from intelligent, well-educated segments of the populace and the narrow-minded commoners.
It is great that the authorities are doing everything possible to keep order in the country. I think the next step is for Levon and his mafiosi to answer before a criminal court for the death of 8 innocent Armenians. Any idiot would have known that the illegal actions by LTP were going to culminate into chaos. And when there is chaos nothing can be ruled out.
He should be put in jail for organizing a (now failed) coup d’etat.
I think you are confused as to who should go to jail. It’s the Kocharian / Sargsian criminal duo that should be brought to justice.
The unofficial site: http://www.levonforpresident.com , has not been shut. They have the press releases and other information until the time that the communications out of Armenia was suppressed.
No Nazarian I am not confused at all. You want democracy? In any democracy whoever causes chaos by illegal actions has to answer for it. there were illegal demos for 9 days . That’s a LOT iof patience from the Government.
NAzarian I know you are an ardent LTP supporter. I hate to disappoint you: He will end up in jail.And that wiull not make him a martyr. His supporters have already started calling him a traitor. After yelling “baikar baikar minchev verch” why didn’t he take it to the end. And iof he knew he couldn’t take it to the end why did he brainwash his supporters for so long. This adventure cost 8 or more deaths and a lot of financial damage for the city. But the financial damage will be paid for by Sukiasyan’s millions.
The thing is LTP miscalculated: You don’t mess around with Kocharian. He is a strong president.
[…] The Armenian Observer posts the statement of the Council of Europe’s Secretary General hoping that the state of emergency will be lifted promptly. Terry Davis also expresses his shock at the deaths of at least eight people last night and the restrictions placed on the activities of political parties as well as the dissemination of information through the mass media. Strasbourg, 2 March 2008, “I am very concerned about the latest developments in Yerevan and the declaration of the state of emergency. I am shocked to learn that at least 8 people have been killed, and I call on the authorities to investigate all these deaths and the allegations of excessive use of force. Obviously, the investigations should focus on finding the perpetrators of crimes and should not be used to harass political opponents. […]
What the hell are you talking about?
In any democracy there are normal elections (hence the word democracy if you don’t know what it means). The police do not attack peaceful civilians, and especially, they don’t kill them. There is also something called freedom of speech in democratic societies.
Your beloved Kocharian has turned the country into a third world failed state. Travel around Africa or Asia. You will come across ‘strong presidents’ like him. They are like a dime a dozen there.
Its AMAZING people that support Levon are on DRUGS ? They make up stories like there are Russian special forces going to attack Armenian citizens , they have shutdown Levon homepage , hundreds are dead , there are 300 000 protesting , opposition candidates being threatened whit their lives, LEVON IN HOUSE ARREST and so on …………………. I can only conclude that the opposition is enraged whit hate, they are like the Nazis and want to open death camps.
According to THE LAW , LEVON IS GUILTY in organizing illegal protest whiteout permission , endangering people health and security . HE BEARS the responsibility in the people death !
Yeah. Killing people is not endangering health or security. Go try your imbecile propaganda somewhere else.
LTP has constantly created hatred among people by announcing whoever is not with us, is our enemy. That’s not how a presidential candidate promotes his political campaign.
What happened yesterday is a shame for Armenia and Armenians. Yes, I am embarrassed to tell people I am an Armenian. I used to be proud of it, but not after March 1st, 2008. I sincerely hope this will not continue, and hope people will be concerned about their own safety and rights rather than go after protecting political leaders’ personal interests and wealth.
LEVON = terrorist
Nazarian you little azerbajani dog ……… read the entire comment ….
The protest was illegal Levon was the organizer ….so he is responsible for the murders that happened.
There is surely a need for clarification from The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, which sent 333 observers to the election. It concluded that 16 percent of the count was “bad” or “very bad.” At one polling station, a quarter of all ballots were declared invalid. At another, all but one of 1,449 votes were for Mr. Sargsyan.
“I told the government that the probability of this is as high as the birth of a dog with five legs,” said Geert Ahrens, head of the organization’s Election Observation Mission here.
If it is true that 16% of the vote cast was deemed to fail the required standards , why was the election count declared “fair”?
Regardless of the merits of the opposition and whether Ter-petrossian was right to send tanks onto the streets when he was president – the government of Armenia has produced some very bad press in recent times which it needs to deal with in order to restore the confidence and the respect of its citizens and diasporan Armenians.
When you can read stories of the former ‘Minister of Culture’ running amok with a gun to pistol-whip employees of the local electricity station, you begin to wonder a little about the make-up of the rest of the Government.
http://www.armenianow.com/?action=viewArticle&AID=1299
The government has a duty to put the house of Armenia in order, and not just think about lining its own pockets, if it wishes to defeat the type of opposition that is beginning to awaken, and if it wishes Armenia to progress.
What is the point in building a huge new commercial complex in the middle of Yerevan if the people in the rest of Armenia are living in poverty?
What foreign company would want to invest in the 2nd largest city Gyumri when the maximum internet connection speed there is a mere 33 Kbs?
The people will get what they vote for -that is what a democracy is all about. They have voted for a new president, so it is up to him to deliver the goods. Let’s hope he gets on with it.
Unfortunately, being in power and being a criminal is somewhat synonymous in Armenia (with possible exceptions, of course). The mentality of people should be changed. When I was growing up there the “goghakan” (“criminal law”) was the most respected law among the youth, as though everybody was a member of a big gang. And coming to power is associated with becoming a criminal authority, and thus one has to behave accordingly not retain respect.
So I highly doubt that the second coming of LTP would change anything. On the other hand this decision by RK and SS to attack peaceful demonstrators is stupid at least. There are two possible reasons for this stupidity: (i) fear (for their past sins), or (ii) that they are completely full of themselves. I want to believe it’s (i), but somehow inclined to think it’s (ii).
Someone even says that “I am embarassed to be Armenian”. We do not need this kind of Armenian. It is better you never mention that you are Armenians
Again, the facts are
1. Elections were rigged.
2. Police used excessive force against peaceful protest ors
3. Innocent people died
4. Most of the protesters were fighting for their rights
5. The authorities are undemocratic. There is no free media in the country, all TV stations are controlled by the government, and most of the population were disinformed and misinformed about the political events going on within last 5 month.
6. Authorities are corrupt, and many criminal uneducated people are running the government and the lucrative indutries of the economy
7. There are lot’s of monopolies in the country that are controlled privately, but the owners are government members.
All this facts DO NOT support those who support the actions of the government.
How many facts you need more?
Someone even says that “I am embarassed to be Armenian”. We do not need this kind of Armenian. It is better you never mention that you are Armenians
Again, the facts are
1. Elections were rigged.
2. Police used excessive force against peaceful protest ors
3. Innocent people died
4. Most of the protesters were fighting for their rights
5. The authorities are undemocratic. There is no free media in the country, all TV stations are controlled by the government, and most of the population were disinformed and misinformed about the political events going on within last 5 month.
6. Authorities are corrupt, and many criminal uneducated people are running the government and the lucrative indutries of the economy
7. There are lot’s of monopolies in the country that are controlled privately, but the owners are government members.
All this facts DO NOT support those who support the actions of the government.
How many facts you need more?
Dear Hayrenaser and The President of Armenia. I think you are the enemies of this nation and approvers of mass killings. Those who accuse LTP in recent killings should bare one think in mind: Kocharyan and his complete team of maffiosi (Serge, Nemets, Lfik, Dodi Gago…) have organised beatings of innocent people on the early morning at the Freedom Square (pay attention: most of them were peacefully sleeping). They have illegally arrested LTP which they did not have the right to do that and therefore were responsible for the mass murder of people who were left without their leader. I was closely observing all these events and I declare with full responsibility that those who are acuusing LTP are blind people and approvers of tyrants like Musharaf, Sadam and Chaushesku, with whom Robert and Serge are competing. Where several hundreds of thousands of people are complaing, it means that there is a serious reason for it. No president has a right to kill his fellow country men, who are peacufully complaining.
So stop using offensive words like “Azerbaydjani dog”, since it shows your turkishness.
If you claim that LTP was not arrested, I can testify that before my very own eyes kocharyan’s secury forces folded LTP’s arms and pushed into the car, which has the following number plates 152UU01. As for the figures such as 300,000 people, I can prove with documentry facts shuch as video recording of these demonstrations. It seems to me you are wathching oncly corrupted H1 and you objective logic is removed from your cognative abilities. Those who claim that the LTP has no right to organise protests should also say that H1 should fully cover mass events such as those demonstrations with huge number of people and all those to fake the ballout or distribute election bribes should be condemned to 10 years of imprisonment. If the second part of my last sentence is fulfilled then there would be no need for demonstrations.
To Hayrenaser.
When you are mentioning that Kocharian is a strong president please also consider the fact that when Poghos Poghosyan, Kocharyan’s coursemate was beaten to death in the cafe in downtown of Yerevan (calling Rob, instead of Robert) and that could have been you or your brother, then I doubt if you would have issued such in irresponsible and ignorant statement. Also, if for your views (maybe not vey popular) you would have been ordered to be gun down, I do not think you would want to live in that place. Kocharyan is the person who cannot listen to any other opinion, except praise. So I am starting to think that you are a person who have problems in accessing a normal information. So please do not say things in rush, it makes you look not serious.
The United Nations human rights chief today voiced deep concern at reports that at least eight people have been killed and many others injured during demonstrations in Yerevan, the capital of Armenia, where the results of recent presidential elections have been disputed.
thnx observer for the message, i know u are there,lots of people are,but seems no one writes there anymore,except me. 🙂
Anybody knows about an Armenian Blog that we could get some kind information?
Please any armenian blog LINK.
We need some information, and this forum does not prove to provide information. There is useless dispute here, and the couple of Sons of Robik and couple of uninformed foreign-Armenians seem to dominate here defending the Regime’s auctions.
To Apathy Rules:
I think your position on LTP election campaign is based more on speculations rather than real facts. Just to clarify what I mean, I can say that reading various stories about freemasonry you should understand that most of the time these stories are specultations and hardly have clear facts underneath. If you know well what freemasonry means and how this society operates, you would recognise that your statements are pure speculations, since their life style is so misterious and no one really knows what is on the heart of a person.
As for Vazgen Manukian period of time, I can say that there were some mishandlings during the election campign, but you should also consider the fact how V.Manuikian in close collaboration with Dashnakcutyun have massively distributed bribery to the population and memebers of the election committee. He was the first founder of so called “karusel” mechanism. Saying that I do not negate the fact that Vazgen Sargsyan also played serious role (maybe in many cases negative role) to support LTP during the election campaign. However, it was not the case as I have personally experienced few days ago. If just counting official 1923 final reports, it could be said that LTP has won the campaign maybe not with drastic difference but definetely with clear advantage. But having all the official papers and seeing how Central Election Committee just drawing the figures, it becomes clear that their figures are fake. If they are so convinced in their rightness, then why they have denied more than 300 applications for reccounting the ballots. I have more documneted facts, which at this point I do not consider appropriate to present.
Dear Hayk,
I can check for you about an Armenian blog, but I can also help with information that is based on facts and closde observations.
The problem with Levon’s zombies is that:
1. For them democracy is ONLY if Levon wins the election Any other candidate doesn’t count ( in the very beginning Hitler also came to power in the above-mentioned “democratic” ways)
2) Two weeks before the elections they had decided the only winner will be Levon. That makes their claims of the vote being rigged, ridiculous. I am sorry but when a Levon supporter tells me that the vote is rigged I rather believe the devil , after so much hatred and lies of his campaign. This hatred has been spread for YEARS by Chorrord Ishkhanutyun and Haykakan Jamanak. Nowadays even if the OSCE approves Levon’s zombies would not be convinced. I have a feeling only if Levon says it was fair then they’ll take his word for it.
3) For me, a Levon,Nikol, Vano, Alik Arzumanian, are not a bit better than Nemetz Rubo or a Lfik Samo. Not a bit!Alik Arzumanian was the most corrupt official in Foreign Ministry’s history. Vano Siradeghyan, who truly enjoyed the idea of killing, is a disgusting example of an Armenian. So please find the Saddam’s and the Pinochet’s amongst yourselves first
What happened yesterday was a logical end, the “crowning achievement” of qocharyan’s rule in last ten years – ten years of murders, repressions and atmosphere of fear in the country.
And it is primitive to blame Levon and his supporters for being bitten and killed. The only answer of regime to the political struggle were guns and bullets, they simply have no other resources. They’ll end up one day (the sooner the better) in jail.
hayrenaser, you sound more brainwashed than i thought you were. You are repeating what they said on H1, and Kocharyan himself, so i think you should wake up. You can be an excellent example of Kocharyan Zombie. I bet your/ your family’s life is good cause you have done something and thats related to Kocharyan and if he is gone you’ll be too. Thats one reason!
Hey Hayk whats the attitude of “uninformed foreign-Armenians”? i am not a foreigner, i consider myself Armenian and i support democracy in the country.
And this blog,like many others have provided many great stories in the past couple of days.
I don’t think LTP was saying that he must be the president by all means. But the fact is the only politician in Armenia that was capable of really uniting most of Armenians and fighting to the end was LTP – not Vazgen Manukian who didn’t even think of organizing rallies, nor Arturik Baghdasaryan who people didn’t trust from the very beginning (and were right). Whatever is said about LTP, one thing you have to give him – his charisma is enormous, his political experience is huge. Some people think this is over, he is done or whaterver – you are very mistaken. In fact Serje and Robik are done – people will never forget this masacre. And to those who say they are not proud to be Armenian, I am VERY PROUD FOR MY PEOPLE. Without any support from West (like in Ukraine or Georgia), we stood up to the police state and while the battle is still not completely over, I am sure we will win! Haxtelu enq!!!!
Haxtelu eq? Hahahaha I thought “Arden haxtel eq!” This is certainly a retreat.
Anway, Myasnik Malxassian has been arrested one more criminal in jail. I can’t wait for the news that Nikol,Alik and finally Levon be put in jail. The 20 year-old HHSh chapter is behind us once and for all.
Rb,
In fact my information sources in election months have been A1plusnews, Lragir.am and Azatutyun. It made me more and more disgusted about Levon and his gang. How they were lying, hating brainwashing people who were rightfully not happy with their economic situation. The biggest hypocrisy of Levon was: the same people he was against (people like General Manvel,Jhangirian, Lady Hagop etc) would turn into angels all of asudden if only they would stand beside him. That’s the biggest reason why Levon will be thrown in the garbage of history.
LEvon risked a lot. And he has lost. But his loss is cannot be compared to the loss of life of 8 people, whose death he bares 100% responsibility for. He should be held accountable. If only one of those 8 would be one of his grandchildren, let’s see if he would still shout “Paiqar payqar minchev verj”?
Levon Srika, Amenayn Hayoc Tagavor.
And whoever says the cleansing of the Opera square was not democratic then they have no idea what democracy is. I’ll give you an example from the greatest democracy in the worl the U.S.A.
If you hold an unsanctioned demo in any city in the U.S. for even 20 minutes (peaceful or not peaceful) they would sometimes not even warn you. They put you in the cruiser and off you go. No questions asked. You resist? I’ll leave it to your imagination what would happen to you. The last example of this were the Rodney King riots in LA. 55 people died because of bunch of zombies protesting injustice or whatever. There are also zombies amongst Armenians apparently and the zomby of zombies Levonik is their leader.
I thought the Armenian Government was much much more lenient than any democratic government in the world. BRAVO for their swifty action even though I still think they ashould have started the operation it AFTER declaring SoE. Anyway what’s done is done Serge will be president in one month and will fix things and by summer everything will be forgotten and the zombies will be reduced to chorrord ishxanutyuin and Haykakan Jamanak again. Levon I hope you rot in jail with the death of eight innocent civiliand on your conscience..
Rb my family is not that well of they barely make ends meet. But they still believe in the future of Armenia. But like many others they believe that Levon means the total destruction of Armenia. They are right.
On March 1-2 Levon was responsible for the destruction of Yerevan Gendron. I’m glad they stopped him there.
Hayrenaser,
Qez el enq haxtelu. You can’t put the entire nation in jail. We are all Nikols now.
Some people just love to live and die as slaves – enjoy your slavery…
HiRebel, I’ve got news for you , the whole nation is NOT with LTP (thanks to God). In 20 days if Levon calls again I’d be surprised if even a 1000 people show up.
The latest news is that he is ready to negotiate with the authorities. Is this the fight to the end?
Shame on him.
As far as I’m concerned Sewrge Sargsyan is the new President of Armenia. I am not a great fan of him (I voted for Vahan) , but I am not full of hatred . He was the winner and I wish him the best.
Hey Hayrenaser
Are you Robik’s son (I mean not legal, just follwoer). But we call you all Robik’s sons.
The whole Armenian nation will not tolerate this criminal and uneducated Regime. They raised hand on the people. This is insult first of all. The Karabakh specnaz was doing the all this. I did not want to mention this, but I have to.
So, the Robik and Sergik, are not only criminals, who are billioneres now, they not only raised hand on their own people, but they are also traitors, because nobody in Armenia will treat Karabakh people the same way that they used to. After this, that Karabakh specnaz beat our people, the gap between Karabakh and Armenia will grow. This Robik’s and Sergik’s last treason, and they are traitors.
As for Hayrenaser
People do not pay attention to this Brainwashed H1 follower of Robik’s son. This guy is blinded forever.
Hayrenaser, i just can’t believe how you keep on protecting RK and SS. My dad he was like, Levon should not do this and Good for serge and he was like, country usually does not go downwards and under SS it will take longer to achieve something. But after what RK/SS did on the morning of March 1, was just outrageous. Even during the day, Police car riding into Crowds? Real gun shooting on people? WRONG, should have never happened. However i do think LTP could have called people to stop earlier, this is just a fight for power between RK/SS and LTP, 2 Mafia clans fighting. They will pay sooner or later, can’t be like that.
I am still confused at how did Kocharyan even become a president? He was not born in Armenia, WTF? i just read BBC and this is what i ended up with!
Though it is not clear who will win, an obvious favourite is Mr Kocharyan, the Prime Minister, who takes a much tougher line on the Karabakh issue than the former president. However, for him to stand for the presidency, the constitution needs to be changed, as he is not an Armenian citizen at the moment.
Hey Hayrensaer
The riots in LA is not comparable thos in Armenia. The LA riots happened and all country accused the police for using force. Secondly, those were criminals, and LA is the most criminal city on the earth.
Another example from US. The women called Cindy, whose son have died in IRAG, went and protest for 3-4 month with her supoporters just in front of Bush’s ranch, and the she moved right in fron of White House. And thee have been many examples that people in US have put tents and protested many times JUST IN FRONT OF WHITE HOUSE.
In US nobody thought to use force against them.
So, so stupid asshole, if you are making comparison do not make NOT-factual and false comparisons.
Whenever in US or Europe, the government had used force, it was against force (like criminals, or young amateur protectors who would break and burn cars and shops). No have been used in Western countries force against peaceful demonstrators.
I remember the protest or track drivers, all many countries were paralized and roads were close, no force was used. Just negotiations. I remember the protest of post office in France and UK, no force was used.
In the west, government uses force when there is violence on the streets. They never used force against peaceful demonstrators.
Hayrenaser You are real traitor like Robik. You enjoy the death of 8 innocent people. This is who you are.
Rb , Whoever creates chaos (in this case LTP) is responsible for anything that happens doing that chaos including police cars running civilians. When you cause riots and chaos by preaching hatred ANYTHING can happen even in the most democratic country in the world let alone Armenia. Kocharyan had all rights to become President. He was a resident of Karabagh and whoever doesn’t believe that Karabagh’s reunification with Armenia happened in 1988 then that person is simply a Turk. So, in 1998 Kocharian was TOTALLY eligible to be President of Armenia. Racism should not exist amongst Armenians.
Hayk as far as I am concerned LTP and his gang are criminals. The LA riots are a perfect exmple of when you let things get out of hand how disaster is inevitable.
I believe 80 percent of today’s Armenia trusts the leadership. How 80%? Serge+Artur+ Vahan got that many votes from the people ad they will form a coalition government. Ter Petrosyan got 20 per cent. That 20 is the minority.
You see, I speak with facts and numbers. Anyone who thinks 20% is enough to just claim the presidency is a Nazi and a second Hitler. You don’t have ANY concrete facts as to why you think Levon Srika Tagavor Hayoc won the election other than your emotions. Reading A1plus on election day and afterwards,yes it’s true couple of beatings there, a bit of rigging here and there, couple of ridiculous videos of trying to prove rigging was happening…I am sorry but this is just not good enough to declare yourself president or demand annulation of the election.
Let’s face it, Kocharian is not a weak Shevardnadze. Him and Serge are warriors. Levon is simply an average individual with tendencies for depression and alcoholism. He risked and he lost big now him and his followers have to pay the price, and I hope they learn their lesson, Never ever to try this again.
By the way don’t assort to name-calling such as “asshole” because I’m not doing the same to you. But then again you are copying your master Levonchka. He has a special talent for swearing.
Hayk, these were not peaceful demonstrators. Facts are facts Aramik Sargsyan was preparing to hand weapons to them, the police attacked at the right time, but even without weapons they did so much damage, looting, burning, imagine what would have happened .
I know I know, now you will say that’s a lie and that the looting was done by government provocateurs. Sorry but nobody buys that story anymore after so many lies from Levon.
YouTube is apparently now blocked.
Choices for Levon after SoE is lifted:
1. Rot in jail
2. Write a good book titled “baikar baikar minchev verch” about his 9 day party at the opera complete with glossy pictures
3. Participate in “Dancing with the Stars” TV show.
4. Become Serge Sargsyan’s driver. (His hat makes him eligible.
5. Emigrate to Israel and live on a kibbutz.
6. Make a music video with Nikolik called “Avazak-e menq enk”
Your comments are welcome
Wasn’t Terry Davis the one who called the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic a “regime” during a lecture at Yerevan State University?
Apparently some posters here deserve to be ruled by the likes of Robik and Sergik. Well then, enjoy it while you can!
The examples of US demonstrations are irrelevant since they were nowhere close to the demonstrations in Armenia in terms of size and attitude. They happened in front of White House demanding to talk to government. While in Armenia they happened in front of Opera demanding to annul election results. There is a huge difference between the two examples. Not to mention that in 2000 Gore won the election but Bush became president… BUT the big difference is Gore did not get into streets to fight…
LTP announced that he won’t meet with the government, and only after yesterday he agreed to negotiate with the government. Also, don’t forget that it was during same LTP years when Dashnaks were arrested and banned to exist as a party, don’t forget that it was during LTP’s second election that Vazgen Manukyan won the election, but he remained in power. Don’t forget that 1996 election was clearly rigged… so, let’s be honest to ourselves — why we are fighting? what are we fighting? for our country or for our personal interests? If for our country, than let’s be more considerate and think about how can we support each other and what little can we do to support the country and rebuild the country’s image in front of the world. If we are here for our personal interests, than we should perhaps continue insulting each other, insulting LTP and SS and keep criticizing and worshiping political figures.
I strongly encourage to stop the fight and clear our emotions and feelings from negativity.
Never worship political figures! That has been one of my mottos in adult life. LTP’s supporters worship him. Now, the question is how will they react when they hear the news that LTP is offereing to negotiate with the Government. How much disappointment there will be. Who did the 8 people die for? For LTP to make a deal.
I say it again: LTP when he makes a deal and saves his ass he will disappear into obscurity just like 1998-2007. In 1998 as a result of his “negotiation” he recieved the villa he lives in today. What will it be this time?
One morecomment. Serge, with all fairness, doesn’t have that worshipping audience, he never even intended having that. He even called the people at Opera Square “our brothers and sisters”. I think he will make a good president. He will even be the president of Satan himself, Levon Srika Arka Hayoc.
How on earth people can forget all the strategic mistakes that LTP made such as closing the power plant and putting people into severe year with no electricity, no water, no heating… I remember standing in the lines for one piece of bread. My grandfather wanted to eat a piece of bread, and my grandma did not let him to do so. And I am not someone from an uneducated or unemployed family. My father is a professor and my mum is a teacher (and they are very honest professionals, never ever taking any money from students for grades)… And at a time, i.e. at LTP’s presidential years, they could not afford to buy enough bread… not to mention that my grandfather, who was retired at the time, used to be a head of town… so, my family, representative of a “middle class” family for most countries, was suffering from hunger… I had to leave the country to find a way to get some education and make some money… things are not greatest at the moment in Armenia. But at least my parents can afford food with their own salaries! Tell me why shall I vote for LTP? Because I did not starve enough during his years?
Good points, Daniel. All that happened yesterday exists in both a historical context, as well as having been the natural (and of course, sad) result of the last few weeks’ strategy by the mob organizers and the authorities.
Despite numerous attempts to call on the people to go home when imminent violence was obvious, Levon deliberately and explicitly told people to remain.
Ironic, considering he was warm and comfy at home while the regular people suffered (sound familiar? this is his running theme in episode after episode).
That the authorities had choices and could have acted less crassly is also clear to me. But there is alot of responsibility here, on Levon and on those in power. As well as on all of us who have helped shape this political landscape.
to make it clear, my previous message was addressed to all those who support LTP, including Haik, etc.
Hayrenaser, I agree with your motto “never worship political figures!”
Nikol Pashinian is arrested as of 8 Am (Armenia time) today.
Another mouse falls in the trap.
Next should be Aram Sargsyan: besides answering for the murder of 8 civilians yesterday, he should also answer for the murder of Tigran Naghdalyan.
I am not sure how LTP could keep sooooo many people on the streets for 11 days. That’s just beyond any logic, particularly in a cold winter… I remember 1988… When the earthquake happened, we were afraid of the next wave, and stayed outdoors for a day or two… but after the second or third night, most people gave up and went home to have a rest (even though acknowledging the threat of potential earthquake). Now, if we don’t sleep for a day or two, we get exhausted and after all need time to catch up with the sleep and get rested. And that’s only natural, as we are human beings and human bodies… How is it possible to keep these people, thousands of them, in front of opera for 11 days? I don’t believe they stayed there just from pure belief that LTP will use his magical power and solve all the problems that Armenian people are facing once he becomes a president. It’s simply childish to follow that logic. So, what was the motivation? Bribe? Personal promises? What else?
To daniel
Short answer: the people are seek and tired of this gang, who rules EVERY aspect of their lives and they don’t want to tolerate it for another 10 years.
Imgagine how bad it is that the same people who survived those bad years, the same people who was rallying agains Levon, now sees him as the only saviour. That says a lot.
AH, I agree with your points, particularly that “But there is alot of responsibility here, on Levon and on those in power. As well as on all of us who have helped shape this political landscape!” Well said! Absolutely, we are also responsible for this. I was one of the foolish people to vote for LTP in 1996! I regret about it soooooooo much and can’t forgive myself. So, the question is what can we do to correct our mistakes? What can we do to have a strong political YET people leader who would be a successful presidential candidate in 2013 elections? A candidate who would be trusted by people and who would inspire people and awaken hopes in people, just like Obama is inspiring people with his viewpoint for CHANGE. Not that I have a right to vote in US, but I am fascinated how inspiring Obama is in his campaign. What can we do to create a political culture where the candidates can get in front of media and have debate over political, economic issues and justification of their viewpoints. I think we have a lot of burden in front of us, and since we proved that we are not politically educated and not capable of acting responsibly, than we should revisit our political, social and cultural norms and start the process of reeducating ourselves!
HMZ, that tells me that people are not politically educated! Give me one single example, where any other nation went and supported the “leader” whom they asked to resign from the post. It does not happen simply because it is beyond logic.
I am going to ask a direct question to you – what is your motivation for supporting LTP. Just forget for a second the current government. What do you think is LTP going to do for the nation in general, and for yourself in particular?
Hayrenaser, can you tell me where are you reading the latest news? Which websites?
This is unbelievable.
People are fighting for their rights, and you idiots (like Hayrenaser and others) think that they worship Levon?
This is not about Levon. My struggle is against uneducated criminal elite (Regime) that exists now in Armenia.
Once I mentioned, this a fight of “qaxaqaci”, meaning civilans and citizens, against “gexaci”, meaning uneduacted and criminal Regime.
Whoever can lead the “qaxaqci”s that person is not important.
If you want to live an a country that your, your family’s, your children’s future depend on the uneducated gexacis like Robik, Sergik, Dodi Gago, JAILAM Dashnaks, Traitor Arthur, then you live as slaves.
I want to live in a normal and free country, I appreciate values of our nation and traditions.
This REGIME is anti-armenian, they think only about their pocket, that is why they have so much criminal background.
Robik even cannot talk normal Armenian. Whenever this guy talks, I think he is a russian. Cannot express any normal thought. The same is true for Sergik, and others.
Go enjoy your Robik and Sergik. Enough is enough. Those who like these two Gexacinerin, then they are also Gexaci. Qunem dzer gexci beran-e, etqan ban kasem dzez
A1+ and EChannel are totally down, at least from my American Internet connection.
Hayk, your message is a bright example of not being politically educated — we are trying to have a civil conversation in here. You are insulting and cursing and differentiating between “gexaci” and “qaxaqaci”… We are ONE NATION, there are no “gexaci” and no “qaxaqaci” but one single nation called ARMENIANS whether you like it or not, we are who we are! It’s very shameful to show disrespect to each other and to curse! I won’t even do it to my enemy as even with the enemy one needs to have a civil conversation!
I do not support LTP per se, I support the change. This gang has pocketed a good chunk of the support that came from the diaspora and think that Armenia is their personal playground, where they squat and spit sunflowers. Disgusting …
Too bad we don’t have a better choice in Armenia.
Gexaci does not mean gyuxaci. Gyuxaci is the people who live in villages. But GEXACI, or better to say GEXCI are those uneducated-criminal feudal elite that now exists in Armenia, 99% of which are in power or controlling the lucrative industries of the economy. GEXCI is a concept, it is not part of Armenian nation.
I will curse and fuck everybody who supports this criminal-feudal regime. This are traitors u bozi txa.
I will accept criticism against Levon, no person in the world is perfect. But to say that people are stupid and zombist, and to support that police and karabakh specnaz can beat and kill Armenians, this is absolutaley unacceptable.
This 2 Regime representatives (Serge and Robik) are traitors. They raised hand on innocent people. They started all this. People were protesting peacfully.
So traitors shut the fuck up. You are just comformist bozi txas with GEXCI mentality.
I can argue and debate on issues not with supporters of violence. If I see you I will make sure to fuck you.
Somebody says, Nikol is arrested, and he is happy. For what? EVen if Nikol did something wrong (I do not think so), this is not an escuse to be happy on that. And this guy calls him hayrenaser. What kind of Hayrenaser you are mother fucker. You are just simple traitor. Because you do not even understand what does it mean to arrest politician in this days. Even if that politician you think was wrong, you do not have to be happy that in your country politicians are being arrested. This is country, not a feudal like criminal system.
I just found this blog. I notice that there is not a lot of actual information coming out of Yerevan. I too wonder if You Tube has been blocked. I saw a some video footage that is no longer accessible.
I just received a phone call from Yerevan, from a reliable source. This person is a surgeon who was in Karabagh during the fighting and knows the various fedayeen from around Armenia and Karabagh. This person states that on Mashtots street, by the Pag Shuga, a group of soldiers from the Shushi battalion opened fire on the crowd. There was no warning for anyone to disperse. The soldiers simply aimed into the crowd and began to fire. At this time, the crowd was not doing anything. The eyewitness then saw the same soldiers shoot out shop windows. They also set fire to the ambulance this person was using to transport a wounded civilian. Two people were shot next to the eyewitness. Both died. The eyewitness has been operating on wounded since yesterday. All who were shot were shot by Karabagh soldiers. There was no rioting and this is not like LA. It’s like, well, a dictator who is going to remind people that he will keep power at all costs.
I know Robert and Serge. I knew fedayeen. Serge and Robert are not of that class.
Serge and Robert are criminals. On March 1, most of the armored soldiers and specnaz troops were talking on Karabakh dialect. Many people heard, and my brother who was on the street on that they even had had concersation with them. One of those soldiers have asked directions from my brother on Tigran Mets street, some of them who were patrooling on the streets even did not know the roads of Yerevan.
OK, so let’s get some more information out here, instead of abstract discussions about the relative merits (or lack thereof) of Levon, Robert and Serge.
PS to Hayk:
Re gexaci – the term I learned was kakghkeni — roughly the Armenian equivalent of “country come to town”. There are regions in Armenia (and Karabagh) that had factories or tourism, and the residents were quite sophisticated. Then there are the other parts. One thing to remember is that the tremendous social and economic disruptions of the late 1980’s and early 1990’s (blockade, war, earthquake, dissolution of USSR) shattered the existing social networks in Armenia. With that amount of disruption, for lack of a better term in a short space, one cannot assume that the “best and brightest” will rise to the top. It’s not cream. Rather, the chaos created an environment where any idiot could get rich. Idiots don’t rely on merit- they use force. So the result is a society where idiots with guns are in charge.
Artsagh girl
I fully agree with you. You want to describe the social structure of the society and its reasons.
I do not mean only RICH people, I also mean authorities who have to be educated and diplomatic, at least they have to know ARMENIAN LANGUAGE. Robik does not know ARMENIAN language, he hardly makes statements. He also cannot normally form his expressions, his thinking is GEXCI-like thinking. I even do not want to mention his accent, in 10 years he could not change his russian-karabakhi accent and talk normal Armenian.
GEXCI does not mean Kakghkeni. It involves much more, mostly lack of education and thinking, plus the kaghkeni, which as they think about themself makes them educated and worth to be in top positions.
Geghci also means that they think only about themself, and they do not understand what is statehood, what is country, and what their role is. They think their role is to rule, nothing else.
If you break down the economic structure of the country you will see that in all businesses that make more than 300-400,000 in US dollars annually, they (Serge or Robik, or their sons and brothers) have steak.
If you take any privatized business, that was worth more than 500,000 in US dollars, they have their steak either by partnership or by bribes.
If you take any serious crime in Armenia (mainly economic or political), there is clear link that connects with them.
What else you want me to mention.
I even do not want to mention foreign policy, which is total mess. With 8.000 square KM land that Karabakh controls now, they want to exchange half of it just for the RIGHT OF SELF_DETERMINATION for Karabakh people. I do not want to mention about Meghri exchange with Karabakh, that they had in their mind and wanted to implement 8 years ago, but VAZGEN stopped them.
They came to power declaring about 8.000 suare KM Karbakh.
I do not want to mention about catastrophic state of demographics, emmigration and etc.
Thing are better now just due to the 2.5 BILLION dollars transfers that come to Armenia annually. This transfers foreign Armenian who left their country to find work send to their families and relatives. Second source of income for Armenia is tourism (again mainly Armenians and diaspora), who bring to Armenia another 500 million dollars annually.
If you take this factors out, Armenia will be POOR, and even cannot self-sustain.
Dear Ditort,
I ask you and recommend that you block and remove all posts by that son of a bitch “haik” who is bent on making divisions amongst Armenians especially those from Artsakh. We do not need instigators like this at this pivotal point regarding Armenia and Armenians. He has shown not worthy of posts on this forum.
Hi folks.
I think it’s great that you’re having this discussion, and hope it goes on, now that most sources of info are being blocked. Hayrenaser and his pals are provacateurs, just like all of those who were sent to the peaceful rallies for ten days. they are simply trying to get you to say and do things that you shouldn’t. that’s what they kept trying to do at the rallies, but they failed, and so they resorted to breaking heads. ours is a peaceful movement. it’s not about levon, it’s about people finally standing up for their rights. they can arrest who they like. the movement goes on. keep talking, but don’t let hayrenaser get to you! peace, melissa
I don’t know who harenasaer is, but I do know that the people who fired and killed Armenians in Yerevan were Armenians from Shushi. At this point, the ones who are sowing division are the Robert, Serge, and those who support him.
Ara,
Haik only mentions facts starting with “If you break down the economic structure…”. They can’t be argued. Robik-ank have raped and killed Armenia for 10 years. The economy is not better except that a million people left and send money home. They keep the border with Turkey closed so people like Dodi-Gago can rape you even more. The dram should have RISEN with the dollar dropping, but they’ve artificially lowered it to rape you yet again. Grandmothers and children are hungry and cold in most of the country.
Levon just so happens to be the only figure that Armenians can rally around. It’s morons like you who are not worthy of posting.
Dear Hayk:
Thank you for the clarification. I haven’t been using Armenian as my primary language in quite a while. I would like to add however, that the leaders of the diaspora are hand in glove with those who personally profit from business in Armenia. Indeed, it’s diaspora money (AGBU, the Armenia Fund, FAR, the Hovnanian dynasty, ad nausuem, that provides the money and access so that corruption flourishes.
I first went to Armenia during the Cold War era — I saw the 1988 demonstrations. I saw the Spetznast in Yerevan. I hung out with real fedayeen, not the asphalt ones. Real fedayeen never ever used their position to hurt other Armenians. No excuses.
If bloggers really want to contribute, a important place to start is with your own attitudes. Armenia is not a “living museum” for your own fantasies about your identity.
Some of the things that make (made) Armenia extra-ordinary were not some mystical element of a mythic (in the larger than life sense, rather than the sense of being false) Armenian identity. It was due in large part because this was a primarily homogeneous society within a larger empire, and there was a relative lack of inequality for decades.
Most of us in the diaspora didn’t know what that would look like until we came to Yerevan.
Hmmm, do I digress? Perhaps I do. Anyway, I have seen too many diaspora Armenians who sing fedayeen songs and rant on about Turks, but when the real work has to be done, they back off because “you don’t know who is telling the truth”. Figure it out. Stand up for something. Go to Yerablour, look at all those graves, and get over your own ego. Those of you in Armenia — do something — get at the truth no matter how much you fear it will threaten your preconceived ideas of Armenia and Armenian-ness. Around the world, Truth and Justice Reconciliation Programs (like in South Africa) show that, corny though it may sound, it is only the truth that will set you free.
Hi,
First thanks to Observer for keeping things up, and hosting all this discussions.
Couple of things i’d like to add
1. (to hayrenaser and other pro-SS )Where did you find an info about LTP talking to government? I am sure it was absolute lie. Yesterday LTP talk to katolicos.
2. If government wants to stop crowds they will release LTP to talk to people, instead of keeping him under arrest. They know for sure that it would be hard for Nikol/Aram/and rest to keep peace there after that night. They even dont have a proper sound system to be able to talk to people. So Rob and Serjik are the only ones who are responsible for all this cruelty.
3. Now i want to talk about elections and the official data posted on elections.am.
There is a nice paper written by from John Brady Kiesling, called: Charting a Challenged Election: Turnout Distribution Analysis as a Tool for Quick Election Assessment. This paper brings an interesting way for official data analysis. And if somebody would spend time to do all the calculations described there, he would be amazed by the level of ignorance of the CEC. They seems cant even calculate primitive sums. Their reported maximum turnout is 6% different than what first-grade kid can calculate. Another interesting finding is that SS got most votes in the regions with 75-100% voters:) I’d like you all guess where was 100% tournout. Hint: it is not an army:)))))) I will post this findings later today, but it seems that SS team never event thought of covering that simple things. So i am afraid that with this level of “analytical” skills what i can expect is3-digit GDP growth :))))))
4. I would like to mention another issue which is apparent now. Luck of any kind of competition makes things worse. We don’t have proper competition in any area and this elections was bright illustration for it. Rob/SS team thought that they will win in any situation. Thats what they had for last 10 years. Stupid posters, stupid slogans copied from Russia (“Araj Hayastan” – “Vpered Rossiya”). They have monopoly in everything:media, etc., so what they have to worry about? But this time was different and they was not ready for this.
5. Most of the SS supporters used to tell that if LTP will come to power we’ll go 10 years back, but current developments showcase that if SS will become president we’ll go back to 1937, so time to choose 10 or 70 years to go back:) Although i am sure that if LTP will be president we would not go back.
They are currently holding the opposition without habeas corpus. 1-5 years for not stopping the rally. A democratic rally. A peaceful rally. Even if you hate LTP, what kind of Armenian are you if you don’t step up to stop this?
GOOD NEWS:
1. Pashinian (the Armenian Goebbels) , responsible for the death of 8 civilians has been arrested.
2. LTP (or Hitler) is reaching out to the authorities for negotiations. There is even talk of him willingly leaving Armenia for good (following in the steps of Vano Siradeghyan, but this is not confirmed yet).
I think this disaster brought upon Armenia by LTP will be over sooner than we think
Hayk and other LTP suicide bombers: I understand the situation is pretty frustrating for you: No one likes to get their hopes up and then lose in such a big way. Same happened to Germans before and during World War 2 with Hitler. Some are still to this day trying to overcome the trauma of losing.
I trust Serge in building a new Armenia. The discontent of certain sections of society is valid, he should and will address it. But first he has to make sure Armenia is totally cleansed of Levon’s gang. They should have done this back in 1998, but they pitied helpless Levon and Vano. The HHSh should be cut from its roots so that we’ll never again have political ustability in Armenia.
We should see results in that regard in the next 20 days.
Forza Armenia!
Trust Serge, trust Stalin, trust Putin — hey Might Makes Right, so who cares about individuals?
Did you understand my post? The Shushi Battalion killed people, and did the looting and burning.
I can name names — you are going on blind faith.
tm,
The opposition had 9 days to stop the illegal rally. That’s enough time don’t you think.
Nikol Pashinian, Aram Sargsyan, Levon Ter Petrosyan, Myasdnik Malxasyan, Sukyassian are guilty of manslaughter and damage to the City of Yerevan. They should pay the price for the reconstruction.
As far as democracy is concerned, whoever creates assembles thousands of people and feeds them hatred and anger for weeks , is the sole responsible for any action of the crowd afterwards. To justify yourself that the protesters were peaceful etc is a blatant lie. That is only your version of the event. The biggest murderers also do not admit to their crimes, say they are peace ful (some even say they’re religious) Do we believe them?
hmm Hayrenaser you’re calling LTP Hitler, yet you’re the one who’s talking of cleansing. When people stand up for inequality and lawlessness in their own country and demand freedom to speak their mind and tell what they want, you have no right to disrespect their democratic right, just like the government did. Whether the rellies were sanctioned or not is irrelevant, since these demonstrations were peacefull.
Artsakh girl Fact is Serge won and became President. Majority of the Armenians trusts him in the next 5 years. How did it happen? That’s irrelevant now. Today Medvedev was the victor in the Russian election. The critics are crying out loud “It was rigged!” Who cares. Many Americans still think George Bush stole the election from Al Gore. Again who cares? Levon stole the election from Vazgen in 1996. If he hadn’t stolen we COULD have had a different Armenia. Or… not. All these details of rigging etc are footnotes in the history of a country. But destroying a city destroying a country is not.
Serge with his immense experience will deal with this. Levon had his chance 1991 to 1997 and he was the worst! Oligarchy, corruption economic stagnation emigration. He is responsible! Never again!
“Armenian authorities have used violence against political opposition several times over the past 13 years. In 1995, for example, during Mr. Ter-Petrossian’s tenure as president, at least one opposition figure died in police custody after his political party was shut down, according to Human Rights Watch.”
source http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/03/world/europe/03armenia.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
am, by cleansing I did not mean killing, I meant making HHSh so irrelevant that it will not harm Armenia again.
People should not only protest lawlessness and inequality in Armenia. They should fight against it by their lifestyle, everyday of their lives. Everyone should start with himself herself. But gathering around an individual who is the initiator of the lawlessness and injustice, and dancing with him and eventually looting and destroying the capital is not the way to justice and equality.
LTP would only fill his and surrounding’s pockets (again) if he came to power. The biggest proof to that, is that he already started surrounding himself by corrupt notorious oligarchs like Sukyassian and Lady Hagop, the only reason for their sainthood being that they stood beside him. What does that show about his readiness for equality and justice?
“Even before police officers moved in, a group of protesters set fire to a police jeep after it bumped into a woman, and when a fire truck arrived to put out the blaze, someone pitched a rock through its windshield.”
source http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/03/world/europe/03armenia.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
SS and Rob are the only responsible for this slaughter and damage. Nobody else! They were not ready to compete with LTP in a proper manner. Our government now s a little russian-supported junta.
“Mr Ter-Petrosian told reporters there could be years of political conflict ahead.”
source
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7274247.stm
Yerevan /Mediamax/. Prime Minister, elected President of Armenia Serzh Sarkisian made an address to the people, which states that the organizers of the unrest “will account for law, history and the generations”.
“As a result of the last days’ events our people bore serious and irreplaceable losses – there are human losses both from the side of the policemen, who were fulfilling their service duty, and from the side of the demonstrators, who fell under the influence of a group of people. Hundreds of people suffered as a result of the illegal actions of the radical opposition”, Serzh Sarkisian stated.
“Today I share the grief of each of you”, the address of the newly-elected President reads.
“Neither side has shown any willingness to back down, with opposition leader and former president Levon Ter-Petrosyan pledging to continue protests and Sarksyan promising to punish trouble makers.”
source
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssEnergyNews/idUSL0323652620080303
The facts? The fact you are ignoring is that a battalion of Karabagh soldiers fired on peaceful protesters, who were also Armenian. Rule of law should be your first fact you adhere to. I can hold my own with you on Armenian history and culture. However, that does not make me a better or good Armenian. Armenia should be no one person’s private fiefdom. Tell me, do you actually live there? Have you actually lived there?
Quote Serge, quote the Times all you want. I know what my informant saw. He saw Vatcho and his men shoot on peaceful, unarmed crowd with no warning to disperse.
No society that uses brute force to survive is a just society. Armenian or Karabaghsti, these men are criminals. Words have power — use words that are grounded in reality, not your ideology
artsagh girl, let’s stop insulting each other and calling people “criminals” etc. Otherwise, unfortunately we can prove that most of the politicians in power are “criminals”… LTP was also criminal to arrest Dashnaks, to shut down Dashnak’s operation and to kill political leaders.
aragh girl (intentional change in name, because you don’t deserve to be called artsagh) Anyone can make up fairy tales, that suits their own cause, like “battalion of Karabagh soldiers”, Vatcho etc. With all the lies by Levon in this campaign (which I heard on a1plusnews) I’m not surprised at these lies. In a court, things like “what my informant” etc etc just don’t count. There is one fact which is crystal clear to everyone: Whoever creates chaos has to answer for it. LTP created this chaos, the details of who shot first who did this and that, is simply irrelevant. Why?
Because nobody knows it’s based on rumors.
NEWS: By the way I’m informed that they are freezing Khachatur Sukyasian’s assets. This is very good news. Because:
1. This will cut funding to Levon
2. It will pay for the damages caused to the city.
Hayrenaser, can you tell me which websites are looking at for news?
daniel:
It is my source at the Prosecutor General’s office plus Panarmenian.net amongst other sites
CC to consider presidential election results appeals March 4
03.03.2008 17:39 GMT+04:00
/PanARMENIAN.Net/ The Armenian Constitutional Court has pinned the suits brought in by Tigran Karapetyan and Levon Ter-Petrosyan on February 27 and February 29 respectively. The hearing on appeal of the presidential election outcomes is due on March 2, the CC press division reported.
I can tell you from now, LTP’s request will be refused. Serge Sargsyan will finally be the President of Armenia
When someone points a gun at you to keep you from blogging, you may tell me that the distinction between free speech and shooting someone is irrelevant. I stand by my comments. Let the readers who are able to, decide. I repeat, eyewittnesses saw the Shushi battalion fire on an unarmed crowd. Medical personal report that soldiers are going into the hospitals and pulling the wounded out and taking them who knows where.
I can’t prove anything in cyberspace, but I could tell you about the taking of the airport in Karabagh, the names of some of the fedayeen who re opended the Lachin corridor, the way Shushi and Agdam and Koubatlou looked after the Armenians removed the Azeri artillery and set up battalions there. I saw the homes the various commanders of the Shushi battalion lived in. I saw their drugs and their SUV’s, and their brutality towards others. The slogan was “might makes right”. If you choose to accept that, then remember another one “He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.” If the election was fair, Serge had nothing to fear.
To all members of his forum who support freedom of speech and human rights
Do not pay attention to HAYRENASER, or DANIEL. These are KGB agents, and Robik sons. These guys are blinded, and they keep insisting that Serge won. They keep insisting that protesters did all these killings. They keep insisting on political cleansing, if you are LTP supporter.
I am not supporting LTP blindly. I support my rights, my freedom, and my PEOPLE.
These 2-3 guys are either stupid or just AGENTS of Armenian Security Services. So, these are the BEST example of traitors.
Hayko jan,
You are understandably a bit pissed off that LTP will soon lose everything including his freedom. The revolution has come to an end. It’s finished. It’s over.
If I am blinded, are Putin, Sarkozy, Merkel, OSCE, EU also are blinded? The list of foreign leaders congratulating Serge is long. Your claims of Serge not being elected are irrelevant, they will be even more irrelevant when tomorrow the CC considers Levon’s case and refuses it. If riots were not caused by Levon before the CC consideration, you might have had a chance, but now it’s too late, you’ve missed the train. The killings were caused by the chaos LTP created, LTP should be held responsible.
Hayk you or LTP don’t represent the PEOPLE. Hitler and Stalin also believed they represented the people but they committed the worst atrocities. The Armenian Government should work very hard top ensure all international organizations condemn LTP’s terrorism against the state. That will also happen soon.
Hayk: you also contradict yourself: In the same post you want freedom of speech, yet later you want to cleanse us all. It proves my point: Democracy for you is only when Levonchka is in power. That will NOT happen. Just forget about it. Besides, why isn’t anybody saying “Haxteloo enk” anymore? I thought after February 19th you had a list of people to be put in jail…? Ay Musalertsi bozi tgha.
Aragh girl:
Ay axchi jan et incher es xosum. With heroin or not an Artsakh heros will always be an Artsakh heros. When you want to win a war there is no time to decide about the moral aspect of it. While Serge and Robert were fighting for Artsakh , LTP was in Yerevan in the comfort of the presidential palace smoking Marlboro Lights.Soon he will smoke tobacco at Nubarashen.
Hayk I would love to meet you and say all this to your lkti face
Levon should be held accountable for the deaths of innocent lives during these riots moreover anyone who preaches hate, against another armenian, anti-armenian stances such as negotiating artsakh at azerbaijan’s terms just because he foolishly think that is the only way to improve armenia’s economy, removing armenia’s national cause of genocide recognition, doing away with armenia armeia, and has looted the nation during his terms, should be held accountable by criminal charges and placed in jail or thrown out of the country.
personally i think anyone who doesn’t know armenias’ difficult 3000 years in that dangerous territory surrounded by enemies and almost not surviving due to not having a strong national army, and preaches abolishing a strong army, is working at the hands of Armenia’s enemies either foolishly or as agent, in either case such person shall be removed from the sphere of politics in armenia.
Hey Hayrenaser
If I see you I will fuck you personally in such humane way that you will acknowledge that you are jsut a SUKA KGB agent. SLAVE
Hayk Looking forward to it. Except I don’t think you have a penis that functions since Levon zombied you out.
Baykar baykar minchev verch! I miss those days
Dhgha jan —
I won’t discuss with you much more, but to set the record straight for others — neither Serge nor Robert did much actual fighting. Robert did none. Serge some, but guess what — fighting isn’t hard. Leading is. I keep telling you — I was there. Betkenal, shad lav parparov hosoomem, Karabaghian vojov noonisk. The ones who really fought are now dead in Yerablour. How many fedayeen funerals did you attend? None of our leaders are much to be proud of. And bullies are not heros — Artstagh or not. They are just plain bullies. You prove our points with your ends justifies the means philosophy, but Machieavelli – you are not.
To Hayrenaser
Hogov struk markanc miayn xxchum en. Du xexch mard es. You are slave, and have slave mentality that is all.
This will be my last comment to you.
To other
Anybody wants to discuss issues and facts no problem.
Hayk, seriously watch your language and stop cursing. With your words you are just proving your own educational level. I am not KGB agent, not “Robik son”, not blinded, not stupid, and not an AGENT of Armenian Security Services as you are announcing in here. I am a doctoral student, studying in a prestigious university in US for your own information. I am very much interested to know what’s your education level? I have no connections with SS or RK or LTP. However, I have very strong believes about LTP based on his actions and presidential years. I can’t make much judgment about SS or RK since I had to leave the country because of LTP. So, let’s make it straight — discussion and criticism of LTP does not necessarily mean being a KGB agent or being “Robik son” or whatever. You are simply supporting LTP with no justification and you are choosing to assess facts selectively. Wake up, it’s time to be fair to ourselves!
And don’t even dare to continue your dirty language!
artsagh girl, why you are calling yourself Artsagh girl. If you are insisting you have so much factual information, why don’t you present yourself? Who are you?
to the owner of this BLOG — PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE delete the messages that contain cursing. It’s a shame! We don’t want foreigners to read these cursing and make generalizations about Armenians’ educational level and cultural norms!
Hayk and Aragh girl,
Again, I know too well that losing hurts. This menace to Armenia called Levon Ter Petrosyan should be eliminated along with his whole clan. Armenia has FINALLY woken up and sees who Satan is. It’s finally the time to build a new Armenia free from Levon and the corruption and injustice he brought upon Armenia.
NEWS
Pashinian, Hakob Hakobyan Myasnik Malxassian, Aram Sargsyan, Alik Arzumanian, the 2 Zurapyan’s the 2 Matevossyans are all arrested. My very good guess is they will get between 3-5 years of prison time. (Hayk are you ready to defend them? Baykar baykar minchev verch?)
They have confiscated Bjni/Noy from Sukyassian, their profit will pay for the damage caused to Yerevan and indemnization to the dead and injured in the Security forces.
The next most probable is the bank owned by Sukiassian’s brother, it will be nationalized. As a friendly advice I say take your money out of there before you suffer inconveniences.
Things are progressing very quickly in Yerevan. But information out is scarce.
No limits to your joy! Vivat Robik, vivat Serjik, vivat Hayrenaser!
“No sign of negotiations in Armenia standoff: OSCE
“In all likeliness this kind of dialogue between Ter-Petrosyan and the government at the moment is not possible,” Heikki Talvitie, a special envoy for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), told reporters after being asked if the two sides would start negotiations.”
source
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL0383162820080303?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0
I love how Hayrenaser celebrates the confiscation of properties belonging to the lone oligarc publically behind Levon and sees stripping him of all he owns by the government as justice- and yet I don’t hear a sound about the numerous properties that have been wrongfully acculumated by government figures, Dodi Gago, etc. etc. What makes Sukiasyan so vile and yet these at least equally vile oligarcs who could pay to repair Yerevan with their pocket change owe their nation nothing? It is this government which has been profiting off the people of Armenia for 10 years now- at the very least they owe it something as well, not just rich Levon supporters! This is hypocracy at it’s worst! And let me guess, the properties taken from Sukiasyan will end up in the hands of a government figure anyway with it’s profits going to them instead of to repairs anyway.
You are right Paul. This is exactly the result of Levon’s revolution. The Sukyassian’s will lose everything. But then again he is responsible for the detruction of Yerevan so justice is served.
fyi:
http://www.kommersant.com/p862757/Armenia_election/
As to who I am, you will have to forgive me — I am new to blogging. Don’t know the culture. My father was very active in the Etchmiadzin Diocese. I don’t particularly support Robert, nor Serge, nor the Vehapar, nor anyone who runs Armenia as their own private corporation. I am now raising two young boys in the New York region. Why don’t I have employment with an Armenian group? Good question.
JENNIFER GURAHIAN, CAND. PHIL.
New York
EDUCATION
2006 WOMEN’S ENTERPRISE DEVELOPMENT CENTER, INC.
Business Training Program – Enrepreneurial Training Certificate
UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN – RACKHAM GRADUATE SCHOOL 1995 Completed Ph.D. fieldwork.
Ph.D. topic: Soviet in Form, Nationalist in Content: the Politics of Ethnicity in the Former Soviet Union using Armenia as a Case Study.
1992 Began grant funded Ph.D. fieldwork in war zone of Nargorno Karabagh
1991 Advanced to Candidacy in Anthropology (passed preliminary exams).
1989 M.A. in Anthropology, concentration in Soviet Studies
1981 UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO – THE COLLEGE
B.A. in Sociology and Religion
ADDITIONAL ACADEMIC TRAINING
1991 UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN INSTITUTE FOR SURVEY RESEARCH
Certificate in Survey Design and Implementation.
1991 KINGS COLLEGE, CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY, ENGLAND
Independent study in Soviet ethnography and anthropology.
1989 UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN RUSSIAN LANGUAGE PROGRAM
1988 DEPARTMENT OF ARMENIAN HISTORY, STATE UNIVERSITY OF YEREVAN, Armenia, S.S.R.
Archival and field research on cultural politics and social change.
1987 RUSSIAN LANGUAGE PROGRAM, NORWICH UNIVERSITY, Vermont
1981-82 PREPARATORY FACULTY, STATE UNIVERSITY OF YEREVAN, ARMENIA, S.S.R.
Completed coursework on Armenian language and history, Soviet history.
RELEVANT EMPLOYMENT
1999 – 2005 WESTCHESTER COMMUNITY COLLEGE, Valhalla, New York
PACE UNIVERSITY, Pleasantville, New York
Adjunct Professor, Writing Tutor
Taught Western Civilization I, Introduction to Anthropology, Introduction to Sociology, Global Cultures and Local Identities, Marriage and Family. Used the questions, “Why Western?” and “Why Civilization?” as the theme in covering over 6000 years of history in 15 weeks. Created original assignments, like using Disney’s movie, Pocahantas, to make seminal anthropological precepts accessible at the introductory level. Taught human origins and evolution, strategies of food production, gender roles, social organization and interpretation of the archeological record. Used theories of Durkheim, Marx and Weber to elucidate the tension between social forces and free will. Used business practices of corporations like Nike and Walmart to demonstrate the local impact of globalization and the culture of capitalism. Taught students to use academic databases such as JSTOR so they could use the best scholarly research in their papers. Designed several courses that combined social theory with community outreach. Taught in the CLOUT program; a skills building program to increase income potential for single mothers. Member of the Women’s Studies Advisory Board. Provided vivid visual lessons using interactive academic web sites to supplement textbook reading. Collaborated closely with the writing center staff and reference librarians to integrate writing, reaserch and critical thinking skills with the course material. Made lessons accessible for a diverse group of students. Used Web CT and Blackboard to manage assignments, grades, lecture notes, readings, discussion forums, internet links. Used video, computer and internet technologies in class.
1994 1995 WORLD COUNCIL OF CHURCHES, Geneva, Switzerland
Country Director for the Republic of Armenia
Assessed the economic, political, and social situation in written reports for the staff in Geneva. Had access to diverse viewpoints in part because I drove myself and did not need an interpreter. Identifed vulnerable populations and sought to assist them through job creation. Developed programs for emergency aid and long term development assistance in partnership with the Armenian Apostolic Church; networked with other aid organizations; issued regular reports assessing the political and economic situation in Armenia and surrounding region. Lived on the grounds of the Holy See at Etchmiadzin, Armenia.
1993 WORLD BANK, Washington, DC
Sociologist/Anthropologist in Armenia
Designed, implemented and analyzed data from a survey on housing needs and household income in the earthquake zone in northern Armenia; hired, trained and supervised staff of thirty local hires; networked with relevant government groups and NGO throughout Armenia. Survey questions had to be clear and convey the same meaning in Armenian, Russian and English so I worked in all three languages. Fuel, heat, electricity and food were all in short supply so I was required to be well-organized, creative and function well under pressure.
1992 CARE, INTERNATIONAL, Atlanta, GA
Survey Consultant/Area Specialist in Armenia
Designed, implemented and analyzed data for surveys on the nutritional status of urban pensioners and the economic status of newly privatized cattle farmers. Conducted training seminars on survey methodology, educated numerous consultants on the history and current situation in Armenia and region, created and subsequently chaired the Non-Governmental Organizations’ Coordinating Council which had over 30 members. Worked in Armenian, English and some Russian.
1992 1993 SWISS TELEVISION, Zurich, Switzerland
Interpreter/Guide in Armenia and Karabagh
Interpreted primarily from Armenian to English, including regional dialects of Karabagh and Gumri. About half the work was in the war zone of Karabagh, Azerbaijan, filming living conditions, makeshift medical care, and interviews with soldiers, commanders and the Prime Minister. Additional stories in Armenia included one on the nuclear power plant and one on police work in the new democracy. I provided background information, set-up interviews, coordinated logistics including transporation, food and lodging for the news team. Position required tremendous tact and cultural sensitivity.
1980 & 1991 Archeology fieldwork and lab work
Contract archeology in Wyoming and Michigan; suvey and excavation work of Native American sites. Cateloged bones from Neolithic site in Croatia.
1986 1991 DEPARTMENT OF ANTHROPOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN, Ann Arbor, MI
Teaching and Research Assistant
Taught Anthropology 101 and 202,for Professors Kottak and Lockwood, did bibliographic and other research work for Professor Sherry Ortner and Professor Kevork Bardakjian, librarian for Mischa Titiev Anthropology Library.
1982 1985 CONGRESSWOMAN NANCY JOHNSON, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, Washington, DC
Legislative Assistant
Handled constituent requests, organized several constituent conferences of 50-100 people, handled legislation regarding human rights in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, wrote speeches and official statements.
1980 University of Chicago School of Social Work
Research Assistant
Researched information and compiled data for a study on juvenile justice policy.
PUBLICATIONS
Housing Needs and Income Assessment Survey. World Bank Field Report, March 1993.
Survey of Agriculture, Kotaik Region, Armenia. CARE: Field Report, December 1992.
Population Based Nutritional Study of Yerevan Pensioners. CARE: Field Report, August 1992.
Commentary. Soviet Anthropology Newsletter, University of Pittsburgh, Winter 1992
In the Mind’s Eye: Collective Memory and Armenian Village Ethnographies. The Armenian Review, Volume 43, Number 1/169 pp. 19-29, Spring 1990
FELLOWSHIPS AND AWARDS 1992 Wenner-Gren Dissertation Research Grant
1989-91 SSRC Soviet Studies Fellowship
1989 Rackham Graduate School graduate study grant
1986-87 Department of Anthropology Mischa Titiev Fellowship
1986, 1988 Armenian Students Association Scholarship
1986, 1988 Armenian General Benevolent Union Scholarship
LANGUAGES
Armenian: Fluent in spoken Armenian and knowledgable of regional dialects. Strong reading and writing skills.
Russian: Competent in spoken and written Russian.
OTHER SKILLS & EXPERIENCE
2003-07 Self-employed, antiques and collectibles restoration and sales.
2003 Nature Counselor, Camp Kiwi
1998 Coordinator, Women, Inc. (support for women entrepreneurs).
1997 Certified New York State Emergency Medical Technician.
1994 Consultant for UMCOR/AGAPE Winter Coat Distribution Project, Karabagh.
1993 Consultant for Aragast Corporation in Armenia with interests ranging from dairy farming to computers.
1982 Paralegal, Office of the County Attorney, Westchester County, NY.
Oops – forgot to ask — Who are you?
well, i did not ask for your resume, but basic facts… i gotta admit you have impressive resume, and lot’s of education and background most of which, if not all, was provided to you by the US.
however, i am still puzzled, that given the education and experience that you have, you are still defending one-side. Particularly having a degree in sociology, working in academic field and completing PhD coursework, working as an interpreter for Armenia and Karabagh, you still show how biased you are. That’s shocking!
I did not claim to be an insider and an expert. And I am not. I already mentioned in here that I am simply a PhD student in New York! I also myself have a degree in Sociology and the very first thing I learned in Sociology department was being neutral. If you know Ludmila Harutiunian, who used to be the head of Sociology department in Armenia, in her very first lecture she mentioned the following: “Sociologist is the doctor of the society, your hand should always be on the pulse of the society.” This means that as a sociologist in particular, and as a GOOD citizen in particular, we need to be neutral and think about the goodness of the society rather than adding oil to the fire.
Jennifer Guraghyan? Which Armenian would call his daughter Jennifer. That’s the most disgusting American name , ever. blekhkhkhkh
Re the name:
Funny, the ones who usually commented on my name were named Vilen, Sergik, Artur, Arkady, etc. Many Armenian names have Persian and Turkish components. Some of the “classic” names – Grigor, Mariam, Hovsep, are actually biblical in origin. Actually, lets start doing genetic mapping to see who’s really pure, shall we?
Daniel — Being neutral does not mean being blind to facts. Don’t fall into the trap of misunderstanding neutrality/objectivity as refusing to hear facts you don’t like. Who’s side am I on? What makes you think I’m on any side at all? I am blogging what I heard, and in 1988, we spent more time trying to get information OUT of Armenia. Your comments suffice to indicate how effective your training has been.
I’ve wasted enough time here — this blog is not about getting information out to help Armenia.
Every politician in Armenia seems to stand accused of being a criminal- is there any politician in Armenia who is NOT a criminal?
Certainly it was not impressive to read that the former Minister of ‘Culture’ of the Armenian Government was forced to resign because he had pistol-whipped employees of the local electricity station after experiencing a temporary power-cut in his block of flats.
One naturally wondered that if that represented the intelligence of the Minister of ‘Culture’, what were the other members of the Armenian government really like?
Has anybody explained to those in the Armenian government that this type of behaviour is not acceptable in the modern world?
Or that when one of Kocharian’s bodyguards murders a fellow restaurant diner in Yerevan, that his type of news story does not reflect well on the Armenian government?
Or that when one reads of police beatings and harassment of news stations, that this is not acceptable behavour in a modern democracy?
The Armenian government needs to clean up its act a lot more, and perhaps to that extent Ter-Petrosian’s outburst and complaints are a reflection of the frustration and views of the ‘silent majority’.
There seems to be no effective opposition in Armenia today, and power has certainly for some time affected the heads of the government in a way which has not been beneficial to Armenia.
ARTSAGH girl — I am copying your own sentence: “At this point, the ones who are sowing division are the Robert, Serge, and those who support him.” This is clearly taking a side. Prove me otherwise. If you were not taking any side, you would be trying to unite people, trying to educate people and make them love each other, rather than hate each other. There is no point of adding more oil on the fire…
All of them have their dark and dirty games, starting from LTP ending with SS. But the problem is embedded in the citizens, and not LTP or SS. The problem is that we need to learn how to stand for our rights within our own country. Standing for ourselves, for our own human rights is not done by taking a gun, or truncheon or a stone and fighting. That is not even an acceptable way of fighting against enemy, not to mention within our own nation.
You are saying “I’ve wasted enough time here — this blog is not about getting information out to help Armenia.” How were you planning to help Armenia anyways?