More then a dozen people arrested in Northern Avenue


The “political walks” taking place in Yerevan’s Northern Avenue are followed by arrests every day. Today more then a dozen citizens were arrested.

The video above shows a woman crying and telling the police, that she had come there with her husband with no “political” intent – just to walk, to which police respond, that there is probably a mistake and they’ll release her husband soon.

Arsen Kharatyan a prominent member of the youth “Sksela” movement is among the arrested today, along with Lyudmila Sargsyan, chairwoman of Social-Democratic Hunchakian Party and Gagik Nersisyan, member of governing body of “Democratic Fatherland” party.


The plan for today’s “political walk” was to read books and newspapers standing in a line for 15 minutes, starting from 18:30. The police are not giving any reasons for this pointless measures they are undertaking, which are only designed to completely scare people, but are apparently only serving to make people hate the authorities and police even more (if that is only possible at this point). This is not just appalling, this is plain stupid!

Source of videos and information: E-channel

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101 thoughts on “More then a dozen people arrested in Northern Avenue

  1. extraordinary clips — too bad most of the nation won’t see this.

    DVD copies need to be made and distributed freely.

  2. Or perhaps such actions should be staged in areas away from where general members of the public are not walking through. The whole actions were going to lead to confrontation anyway and are designed to start up larger demonstrations. And yes, I know, the law on rallies needs to be changed again to allow people the right to apply for and receive permission to stage meetings in clearly identified spaces as long as they then don’t decide to occupy the area for days.

    I’m getting tired of both sides now — still intransigent. It’s time for both to sit down and agree to using the PACE recommendations as a starting point with the possibility of also negotiating about Dallakian’s suggestions re. the media and parliamentary elections. However, I consider that it is totally irresponsible for pro-opposition activists to stage actions in amongst members of the public thus attempting to drag them into the struggle for power between too undemocratic sides.

  3. More of these “sold” souls in jail , the better for Armenia and its stability. It is better to restrict the freedom of 100-200 “bomzh”s than to play with the fate of the whole nation.

    On another thought why do women supporters of Levon all look like used up whores?

    And another question: Why isn’t Nikol and Levon arrested yet. They should deport these 100-200 cancerous cells with their families. Too bad.

  4. Hayrenaser, I think your comment about “whores” is uncalled for. Although I personally consider that these actions are designed to provoke a confrontation with police for PR purposes, arresting people like this is not the answer. Instead, police should speak to people, ascertain their reason for being in a location and then warn them to move on (as they did on Saturday, actually). If people do not comply then there is reason to detain.

    At the same time, by restricting the holding of political meetings such incidents are also the fault of the authorities and they should change that immediately. Yes, I know, the opposition might try to destabilize the situation again, but in such a case, that’s when any breach of the law should be responded to — but only then and in that order. Meanwhile, I again believe it is time for Ter-Petrossian and Sargsyan to sit down, perhaps with CE representatives present, and negotiate.

    This is the only way out of this situation now. Even if the momentum behind the opposition protests has now gone and the majority of people not supportive of them, if anyone wants Armenia to progress this is the ONLY solution. Well, in my opinion anyway. Let’s not forget that even if every independent observer doesn’t believe Ter-Petrossian received 65 percent of the votes and instead says as much as 30 percent, they also don’t believe Sargsyan won in a first round.

    Both sides are wrong and both sides need to compromise in the interest of the development of this country.

  5. Incidentally, the opposition are clearly cleverer than the authorities and all of this is bad for the government and police who should ONLY act within the confines of the law and the constitution. And despite what I’ve already said about a few opposition activists clearly being ready to enter into conflict with the authorities, the civil liberties of the majority should not be affected by the response of the authorities.

    So, what to do? Clearly, pro-opposition civil society is pursuing a campaign and the authorities have four options:

    i) Arrest people walking on the street and look stupid.
    ii) Close off Northern Avenue and effectively provide the opposition’s campaign of civil disobedience with a much needed victory.
    iii) Allow rallies and only act upon breach of the law.
    iv) Sit down, negotiate and be prepared to compromise.

    Obviously, I favor the third and fourth options and unless they do so, it will be hard to do anything but to reluctantly support further actions. If the authorities want to resolve this situation they need to be seen to want to. As it is, I’m not sure that they do.

  6. Onnik,

    you are too civilized. I believe the way a mafia or a cult should be dealt with is exactly this way. To mock them and scare them off.Jail them release them threaten them until they come to their senses. in the last 6 months LTP unleashed psychological terror against the state, now it’s time to fight him and his supporters in the same way.

    What you so nobly suggest is not fit for fledgling democracies surrounded by mortal enemies. I think what the authorities are doing may seem stupid or childish in the short run, but it will definitely work in the long run.

    I am glad they are also terrorizing Isapella Sarkissian’s fake flower power group. It’s about time that they show its true color.

    From now on an LTP supporter is an enemy of the Republic of Armenia. They MADE themselves the enemies of Armenia by their lies,hatred and their actions. They can change their ways, not get out of the house, emigrate or be jailed. They can choose any one of these options , including LTP. The governmrnt should not negotiate with them.

    Again: the stability of Armenia is much more important than any human rights values , especially at this point. The more of them in jail, the merrier.

  7. Cleverer? I think that for the opposition it is an “us” vs “them” while the authorities have a completely different fight. They are the ones ultimately responsible to the people, to the outside world as well. The authorities have the mandate and speak for Armenia, represent Armenia etc.

    In this sense I disagree with Onnik and hayrenaser as I think the struggle is more complex than some village turf war between the two clans.

    I see the opposition activists exploiting a weakened state. I don’t see any “endgame” for them that involves strengthened institutions, strengthened democracy, strengthened state. It is just a fading game of revenge, one that has ended (for good or for bad) in Serj being elected, the international world recognizing it, and some (20%? 30%? 40%?) dissatisfied.

    Not so unusual, and like anyone who loses an election, they should gracefully move on. While that may not happen any time soon, I think the authorities and opposition both have more important things to do than organize or clamp down on demonstrations that are having less and less effect by the day.

  8. Hayrenaser,

    I guess I’d like Armenia to be civilized then and also believe that such actions might stabilize the country in the short term but result in inevitable destabilization and conflict in the longer term. And whatever I might think about the naivety of Sksela and some of the political motivations behind some of them, there are those who genuinely believe this is in the best interests of democracy and human rights. Basically, I don’t believe that “terrorizing” anyone works in the interests of any fledgling democracy.

    As it is, unless the authorities are prepared to negotiate a solution to this, the more likely outcome is that those who believe in democracy will see no other option but to support pushing in this way. As for jail, there are those who I do believe broke the law and need to be judged and sentenced accordingly on both sides. However, in the case of these detentions, I think that the most such actions warrant is a simple fine.

    Arrests and imprisonment is not the solution and also not in accordance with what I consider a rule of law state to be — fledgling democracy or not.

  9. Cleverer?

    AH, you answered the question with one of your next sentences.

    I see the opposition activists exploiting a weakened state.

    And they’re doing so effectively.

  10. Rather infantile and naive, perhaps, but effective when what happens is what precisely has. Soon the international community will see small insignificant numbers of activists rounded up for doing nothing more than organizing protests that don’t attract more than the same old pro-opposition civil society and opposition activists (albeit designed to push for larger demonstrations and another attempt at regime change), but ultimately forget the bellicose and confrontational nature of Ter-Petrossian’s campaign and post-election meetings. It’s about influencing domestic and international opinion, and in the case of the latter, such things matter. Moreover, if the rights of the majority are infringed by trying to control the minority then the authorities only succeed in alienating themselves from the very people they are meant to serve. It also means the civil disobedience campaign is working.

  11. ok, I guess I was associating something positive with the word clever, assuming integrity of purpose. Clever here, I guess means manipulating, conniving, and devious.

  12. Clever here, I guess means manipulating, conniving, and devious.

    Yep, especially when in all of these actions since last Friday they have been held by mingling among members of the general public making the work of the police more difficult and more prone to mistakes.

  13. Guys, what has to happen, so that you will accept that the government has done something wrong? Should they drop an H-bomb on Yerevan?
    Or you will say that it was the fault of Levon and Nikol, cause they live in Yerevan,
    and the authorities simply had to bomb the city – to get them.
    The government has passed a rediculous law, banning all kinds of public gatherings,
    they keep arresting everyone who is suspicous. And yet it’s still the opposition who’s to blame.

  14. Guys, what has to happen, so that you will accept that the government has done something wrong?

    Vart, I’ve said both sides have acted wrong.

    The government has passed a rediculous law, banning all kinds of public gatherings, they keep arresting everyone who is suspicous. And yet it’s still the opposition who’s to blame.

    Again, if you read my comments I’ve also blamed the government.

    And yes, I know, the law on rallies needs to be changed again to allow people the right to apply for and receive permission to stage meetings in clearly identified spaces as long as they then don’t decide to occupy the area for days.

    […]

    Moreover, if the rights of the majority are infringed by trying to control the minority then the authorities only succeed in alienating themselves from the very people they are meant to serve.

    I’ve said it a number of times now, but I’ll say it again. It’s time for representatives of the radical opposition and government to sit down and talk in the hope of paving the way for a meeting between Ter-Petrossian and Sargsyan to resolve this situation.

    That for me is part of the democratic process, but both sides must be willing to do so.

  15. Ռոբերտ Քոչարյանն ու Սերժ Սարգսյանը իրենց կողմից իրականացվող ռեպրեսիաների մասին խոսելիս “աշխատանքային” խոսակցությունների ժամանակ այդ պրոցեսը բնորոշում են որպես “գայկա ձգել”: Այսինքն, երբ պիտի ասեն, թե նոր ռեպրեսիաներ պետք է իրագործել, ասում են` գայկաները պետք է ձգել: ՀՀ առաջին նախագահ Լեւոն Տեր-Պետրոսյանի ղեկավարած շարժումը սկսելուն պես, Քոչարյանը եւ Սարգսյանը բազմիցս իրենց շրջապատում ասել են. “Ոչինչ, հեսա գայկաները մի քիչ էլ կձգենք ու ամեն ինչ կվերջանա”:

    Նման արտահայտություն, որ վերաբերվել է ՀՀ առաջին նախագահին նրանք առաջին անգամ արել են 2007 թվականի հոկտեմբերի 26-ին, հանրահավաքից հետո իրենց անհանգստացած շրջապատին հանգստացնելու համար: Ու Լեւոն Տեր-Պետրոսյանի առաջին հանրահավաքից ի վեր ավազակապետական զույգը ստիպված է ձգել գայկաները: Այս ընթացքում տասնյակ հազարավոր մարդիկ սպառնալիքներ են ստացել, բերման են ենթարկվել, շատերը զրկվել են աշխատանքից, առնվազն ութ մարդ` կյանքից: Արտակարգ դրությունը “գայկա ձգելու” ամենացայտուն օրինակն էր եւ գագաթնակետը: Բայց դրանից հետո էլ զույգը ստիպված է “գայկա ձգել”, մարդկանց զբոսանքը Երեւանի կենտրոնում հսկելով սաղավարտավոր-մահակավոր ոստիկաններով, նորանոր ձերբակալություններով: Այսինքն ավազակապետությունը շարունակում է ձգել իշխանական մեքենայի գայկաները:

    Եւ ուրեմն, ի՞նչ պետք է անենք մենք` ՀՀ քաղաքացիներս: Մենք չպետք է թույլ տանք, որ զույգը գայկա ձգելու այս պրոցեսից դուրս գա, որովհետեւ քանի դեռ գայկա ես ձգում, մեքենան քշել չես կարող: Եւ հետո` գայկաները կտրվելու, այսինքն կոտրվելու հատկություն ունեն: Դա տեղի է ունենում այն ժամանակ, երբ գայկաները ձգում ես ավելի, քան դրանք կարող են ձգվել: Քոչարյանասերժական գայկաները հասել են այս սահմանագծին ու որպեսզի դրանք կտրվեն, հարկավոր է նրանց ստիպել, որ շարունակեն ձգման գործընթացը: Ինչպե՞ս:

    Ամենակարեւորը, իհարկե, ամենօրյա զբոսանքներն են Ազատության հրապարակի մերձակայքում: Սա հիմնական գործն է, որ մենք բոլորս պետք է անենք:

    Երկրորդը` պետք է կազմակերպել ավելի փոքր ակցիաներ: Պետք է շարունակել DVD գործունեությունը, հանրությանը մատուցելով օբյեկտիվ վիզուալ տեղեկատվություն: Եւ այլն եւ այսպես շարունակ:

    Կարճ ասած, ավազակապետական զույգը պետք է ստիպված լինի շարունակել “գայկա ձգելու” պրոցեսը: Մյուս կողմից, վերը նշված ակցիաները կծառայեն մեծ հանրահավաքի նախապատրաստմանը, որի օրը եւ տեղը որոշում է Լեւոն Տեր-Պետրոսյանը: Ու մինչ վերջինս որոշում է կայացնում, մեզնից յուրաքանչյուրը պետք է Քոչարյանին ու Սերժին պահի “գայկա ձգողի” կարգավիճակում:

    Պայքար, պայքար մինչեւ վերջ:

    Նիկոլ Փաշինյան

  16. Paron Nikol Pashinian,

    Et vortegh es taknvel ay “mkan lakot”? Durs eli qo enkernerid pashtpanee ay vaxkot. Du el haytnveloo es bantoom. hon el mi tas taree k bghaves “Paykar Paykar minchev verch”. Nayenk Levon papa-n en jamanak kez karoghana ognee?

    Nikol-i dserpakalman or-e azgayin ton a lineloo. Mi tas taree bant yev eli tas taree Ijevan-i hogebujaran.

  17. One point, though. I do wish the opposition stop releasing edited material. On Saturday, for example, most of the protesters screamed at police they were just on Northern Avenue out walking and talking which was not the case. I’d also like to see the what happened just before this incident. Did the police instruct this wife and husband to move and they refused and so on?

    Regardless, the police need to allow people to assemble in areas where there are not other citizens among them, and the opposition must stop from mingling with other members of the public and effectively hiding among them. Ultimately, I consider the new law as well as the campaign of the opposition to be irresponsible.

    Whatever happens, it means that the opposition always can claim a propaganda victory even if only a handful of people turn out which is what the situation is now.

  18. Armenia is becoming like Belarus, no opposition members will be allowed in the future. Hell, thats amazing. I am ashamed of being Armenian, in fact i am writing a letter to Embassy of Armenia in Canada to revoke my Armenian Citizenship. I’d rather have just Canadian citizenship than dual Canadian and shameful Armenian. I just feel sorry for people who are going to have to go through this again, in fact when they don’t have to. This is just Gagik Tsarukyan’s, Serzh, Arthur’s and Levon’s fight for the chair at the top, cause they all want to eat money.

  19. Rubo – To be honest, your (re)action is just what the evil intended want: to turn your back on Armenia. I would argue that one of the goals by LTP’s re-emergence into the political arena was to give false hope, build up unrealistic expectations, and pump up the balloon…only for people to feel disenchanted, disgusted etc.

    Now I am not condoning the events of the last few months as good, but please tell me when in recent Armenian history (say, 600 years) have authorities encouraged the existence of a constructive opposition?

    This will take time, but I think there is nothing particularly new/bad happening that we haven’t endured and/or overcome as a nation before.

    Democratic institutional development takes Armenian time and Armenian resources: not WB money thrown at something (for which we later shriek in horror when we realize that there are ulterior motives), and not when a discredited crook/former president wakes up from a 99 year (ok, 10) year slumber to save the nation. Thank God most of our nation is not so naive to believe this hallucination.

  20. Sranic avel zgonutyun, zgushutyun yev hamberatarutyun haykakan iravapah marminneric spaseln animast e. Mardik voch uzh en gorcadrum voch hayhoyum en voch el iravunqnern en votnaharum. Dra poxaren stanum en hayhoyanqner, hrmshtoc vor@ yerbemn hasnum e ceckrtuqi.

    De artasahmanum gtnvogh mer hayeric mekn u mek@ ov dzhgohum e togh nman kerpov varvi vostikani het u tesni te inch hetevanq ayn kunena?

    Ays mardkanc mecamasnutyun@ levoni shtabi koghmic ugharkvac mardik en. Dserbakalvelu depqum hankarc darnum en “anmegh ancord”.

    Karg u kanon goyutyun uni. Pahpanir ayn yev qez voch voq chi xangari.

  21. AH, i get what you mean, but i felt this for a long time, and this was more like a climax point for me, but i feel like Armenian Citizenship is more like a burden than benefit. I am not turning my back on Armenian people, but Armenian government, I have so many relatives there but again, i am fearful of coming back there, becuase they might take me to army, which i am not fond of.

  22. The government is just showing how paranoid it really is when it has to arrest people for merely congrgating on a Yerevan Street. Not only do the Police and Special Branch go around videtaping everyone in a blatant attempt to intimidate dissenting voices but they’re now interrogating little ten-year old school children in thye Vanatur suburb of Hrazdan for attending rallies to free their local Parlimentarian Sasun Mikaelyan. Talk about tarnishing Armenia’s image…

    All this blatant crushing of any legal opposition will just serve to prolong the social strife that most modern nations have undergone. It seems that many are not ready to admit that Armenia is slowly but surely entering this phase in its historical development.

  23. Honestly, Armenian Citizenship is nothing but burden. There are no benefits to it, and if we, the people who live abroad do not have the right to vote, then why be a freaking ciizen?? Why?? Can someone answer that?? Why pay money to validate it and everything and get no freakin benefit at all?? WHY???

  24. And AH, u thank God for people not believing the hollusination of levon, meanwhile ur in a hollusination for believing that Serzh won.. LMFAO… thats the biggest hollusination I have heard, honestly…………..

  25. Do you really think the present regime would ever allow Armenians overseas who’ve tasted just a bit of normalcy to vote, even if they are citizens of Armenia.

    Nor – don’t get flustered. If they can get away with rigging the vote her in Armenia just imagine what would happen to a paper ballot being sent from Paris, Los Angeles or Moscow??? Good Luck..

  26. Honestly, Armenian Citizenship is nothing but burden.

    Which is precisely why, dual citizenship or not, I will not take Armenian citizenship. Why throw my rights away I tell people here that ask?

  27. BTW: Regarding Levon vs Serge and why many of us consider that both are to blame for the situation, here’s two interesting analyses published this week on the failure of the authorities to hold proper elections and the failure of the opposition to attract enough support.

    The situation in Armenia allowed an opportunity for a change of government – being a semi-authoritarian” rather than a consolidated authoritarian regime, Armenia allowed breathing space for an opposition and civil society, and Ter-Petrosian, as a former president, had many connections within the power and security structures. A number of defections from the Sarkisian camp followed the elections, including such top officials as the deputy General Prosecutor. During the mass rallies, protesters used a rich arsenal of methods of non-violent resistance, which had been applied during other “color” revolutions: tents on the central square, ‘sit-in’ protests, hunger strikes, and filing a complaint with the Constitutional Court.

    Yet several critical factors prevented Armenia from joining the gallery of hopeful democratic changes in the former Soviet states. The attempted revolution lacked an important trigger – namely, a large-scale election fraud exposed by domestic and international observers and further indicated by reliable exit polls. Had the OSCEODIHR observation mission made a more damning assessment in its preliminary statement, the protesters would have more easily generated international support. Recognition of the results by America, France, and other major Western powers contributed to protesters’ deflation. They never gained the wide international coverage that the Ukrainian orange revolutionaries did.

    Another important factor behind the protests’ failure was the dubious quality of the opposition. It failed to put forward a single candidate, who could likely have made it to the second round. Second, the rule of Ter-Petrosian is remembered for economic disaster and wide-spread corruption, and citizens no doubt remember his own dubious re-election, when the army was deployed in the streets. Though he may justly condemn the current regime, his personal credibility is unlikely to convince millions that his return to office would herald change and prosperity. The number of protesters at most rallies was in the tens rather than hundreds of thousands, as they were in Ukraine in 2004 or Serbia in 2000, and they were not as determined. Finally, the protesters did not manage to strictly observe non-violent tactics; engaging in clashes with the police, with some reported to be armed, which is not surprising in such a conflict-riven region.

    http://democratizationpolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/dpc-analyst-no-1-25-mar-2008.pdf

    The election in Georgia was clearly the best-run of the three, followed by Armenia and then Russia. However, we must not overlook the similarities between the three cases. These elections shared several important characteristics, which highlight broader trends in the region.

    First, they were not competitive. Dmitry Medvedev faced no real opposition in Russia, while few in Armenia or Georgia thought that victory for Serzh Sarkisian or Saakashvili was ever really in doubt. Second, none of these elections saw a clear-cut choice between a democratic and non-democratic candidate. Third, the most substantial irregularities occurred in the pre-election period: various combinations of media bias, intimidation of opposition candidates, and liberal use of state resources on behalf of the eventual winner. The election days themselves were relatively smooth and not marked by rampant irregularities.

    […]

    The context of the Armenian election raises a different set of problems for democracy advocates because it was essentially typical for that country. The outcome was never in doubt, the fix was in early, the opposition was not really democratic, and there were few strategic options for internal or foreign democrats. Moreover, by making electoral reforms, the Armenian government was able to avoid a negative election report or any significant negative consequences for staging yet another flawed contest.

    http://www.tol.cz/look/TOL/article.tpl?IdLanguage=1&IdPublication=4&NrIssue=262&NrSection=2&NrArticle=19475#author

  28. A1plus reports over 50, my journalist friends at the scene gave me different numbers – from 15 to 60, so I’m really not sure about figures here. Actually, I don’t think figures matter – what matters is the police stupidity!

  29. Onnik…I really have a tough time understanding your rationale. You say that you blame both Levon and Serge for the “situation”.

    WHAT BLOODY SITUATION? Eight dead Armenians?

    Please direct me to the source you base this inane allegation on….
    Oh, sorry, the regime is still working hard to explain how these people were killed and who exactly shot them.

  30. I don’t get your point Mher – Most reasonable people agree that both the authorities and the opposition leaders have serious responsibility for those dead. Onnik may (I don’t know, we can ask him) call it 50-50. I for one would term it 80 (LTP) 20 (authorities). Others will differ. That is secondary as we are not judge-jury-executioner.

    The question to ask now, is how to improve the situation. Those who wish for a better, stronger, more democratic Armenia should welcome such a call.

  31. Re the numbers:

    Relatives of people arrested in Northern Avenue have gathered in front of the police building
    209 words
    27 March 2008
    ARMINFO News (Armenia)
    English
    (c) 2008 ARMINFO News Agency. Quotation to ARMINFO and its sources is required in case of citing or republication.
    Yerevan, March 26. ArmInfo. Relatives of the people arrested in Northern Avenue have gathered in front of the police building Today evening the police arrested almost 50 people participating in daily silent walk of oppositionists. The spokesman of opposition “Heritage” party Hovsep Khurshudyan has told an ArmInfo correspondent that the MPs representing Heritage have not been let into the police building. Almost 100 people have gathered near the building: relatives, journalists and almost all members of Heritage parliamentary group. One of the detainees is the father of Heritage member, MP Armen Martirossyan. To remind, on Mar 1 Martirossyan saved the life of a high-ranking police officer by shielding him with his own body.
    The spokesperson of the opposition People’s Party of Armenia Ruzann Khachatryan has told the ArmInfo correspondent that the policemen did not explain why they were arresting the people. Their actions were so illogical than Khachatryan cannot even comment on them. At 8:20 PM the leader of the Social-Democratic Party “Hnchakyan” Ludmila Sargsyan told the ArmInfo correspondent by phone that the police were taking her and the other arrested people to the police departments of their communities.-0-
    Document ARMNFE0020080327e43r00001

  32. Mher, no reasonable person can doubt that the opposition were getting ready for clashes — that’s why I blame them.

    Also, no reasonable person doubts that the government is more than willing to use force to enforce its will — why I blame them.

    As for who is more to blame than the other, I can’t say until an independent inquiry is held. I will, however, blame Levon Ter-Petrossian for stirring up hatred and confrontation in society which created the mood for a fight among some opposition supporters. I will also blame the government for the shoddy way they tried to disperse the Liberty Square rally which created the spark.

    As for 8 people dead, it’s worth pointing out that 1 of those was a policeman. In terms of bullet wounds, 14 policemen were injured or something, and 16 opposition members were. Sounds like both sides were violent and regardless of who started it, the side with the power was going to have less casualties and that’s what happened.

    On top of this, the election should have gone to a second round — blame against government. However, Levon had declared himself winner even before the pre-election campaign began and through the stirring up of hatred prepared the ground forces for any clashes to come to power that way — blame against the opposition.

    I blame both sides for being corrupt and undemocratic and haveing nothing to do with anything which can remotely be considered “democratic.”

  33. Onnik may (I don’t know, we can ask him) call it 50-50. I for one would term it 80 (LTP) 20 (authorities).

    I wouldn’t want to put a figure on it and think that the ratios change depending on the date and also what specific incident we’re talking about.

  34. fuck u all onik qrqorians hyrenasers and other motherfuckers!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    you all are bustards and idiots trying to play democracy and hustice!!!

    fuck u all you alll know that you cincisme has no limits and u all have your own ineterests in serz redime!

    fuck u all!!!!

  35. Yervand, very eloquent and typical of the inability of one side to argue their case. Ironically, I’m not for Serge, but for you the logic is quite simple. Blind, sycophantic servitude for Levon or nothing. It used to be such comments came addressed to me from Kocharian’s people, but it is interesting to see the same mentality is alive in the radical opposition camp. As every independent and objective observer understood, there was really no difference between the two. Your comment proves it entirely.

    Anyway, I can see that your level of understanding of what democracy and justice is leaves quite a lot to be desired. For you democracy is NOT about people having the right to their own opinions. For you it is about enforcing your view on others and over-reacting when you come across people that don’t agree. Still, at least “fuck” is one of the few words you can spell correctly. Well done, I’m impressed. ;-)

  36. to be very short on your long demagogy :

    democracy by my own understanding is a rule of people! So even if you think that the majority of peopel support your “undemocratic” side this still doesnt mean that they should not rule!!!!

  37. Interesting argument, Yervand. This rationale is precisely why I think LTP’s coup attempt has little to do with democracy.

    If you are for democratic evolution and supporting the radical oppostion, think twice!

  38. u guys will never get it unfortunately!

    one more example:

    i prefer devil elected via free and democratic elections to saint elected via election fraud and crime!

  39. I am not undemocratic. I neither support Serge or Levon. Indeed, I can’t as I’m not an Armenian citizen, but as an outside observer I don’t see any democracy on either side.
    This is perfectly obvious by the lack of reasoned discussion and debate on your side and the tendency to insult, accuse and attempt to intimidate.

    I understand that emotions are high, but this is not the way.

    Anyway, Levon’s side was exceedingly cynical to the whole process of democracy, but I’m not saying that Serge was any different. Levon was cynical in preparing for revolution regardless of the outcome and turning people against each other, while Serge relied on the methods that Levon pioneered in 1996.

    However, regarding electing a devil, sure, I agree. However, Levon did NOT win the first round of the election and nor did Serge. I’ve said it time and time again and I’ll say it again. I believe a second round should have been called and I am unimpressed by Levon and Serge’s claims of outright victory.

    If you think that means I’m pro-Serge, well, what can I say? Nothing will convince you other than everyone kissing Levon’s feet and addressing him as president even though the majority of Armenians didn’t vote for him. And yes, if this conversation was about Serge I’d be saying the same thing.

    However, it isn’t. We’re instead talking about continued attempts by the radical opposition to stage a colored revolution even though they have little support for one, and the authority’s knee-jerk reaction in restricting their activities.

  40. ՁԵՐԲԱԿԱԼՈՒՄ ԵՆ ԿՐԿԻՆ
    [18:50] 27 Մարտի, 2008

    Այս պահին Հյուսիսային պողոտայից Կենտրոնի ոստիկանության բաժին են տարել 11 հոգու, այդ թվում Լեւոն Տեր-Պետրոսյանի շտաբի անդամ, լրագրող Տիգրան Պասկեւիչյանին, ՚Նոր ժամանակներՙ կուսակցության փոխնախագահ Հրաչյա Սարգսյանին: Հակառակ սրա` մարդիկ շարունակում են զբոսնել Հյուսիսային պողոտայում:

  41. How did the stroll around the Liberty Square go today? Were there many detained people?

    Was there one? I haven’t seen any news on the Internet so far. Only that those detained yesterday have been released.

  42. but as an outside observer I don’t see any democracy on either side.
    This is perfectly obvious by the lack of reasoned discussion and debate on your side and the tendency to insult, accuse and attempt to intimidate.

    – democracy is not something you should see and say oh yah i see democracy here i dont see it there! again dmocracy is rule of people! it is a mechanism that people will rule the country by means of elections! as long as this mechanism is not working- there could not be any democracy!!!

    IN FACT ALL PAJQAR!!!PAJQAR MINCHEV VERCH IS NOT FOR LEVON!!!!

    IT IS FOR HAVING FREE ELECTIONS!!!!

    THE MAIN CLAIM OF PROTESTERS WAS TO ANNUL THE FRADULENT AND CRIMINAL ELECTIONS AND SET NEW ELECTIONS!!!!!!!!!!

    HOW DO YOU KNOW WHO WON THE ELECTION OR WAS THERE NEED FOR SECOND ROUND IF THE LECTIONS HAD NOTHINMG TO DO WITH A DEMOCRATIC PROCESS BUT WERE RATHER TERROR ON PEOPLES WILL!!!AND RIGHT TO ELECT FREE!!!!!!!!

    WHO CARES ABOUT LEVON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I HATED LEVON DURING HIS PRESIDENCY!!!!!!!!!!

    AT THIS MOMENT LEVON IS WITH NATION!!!!

    THIS IS NOT A FIGHT FOR LEVON!!!!!

    THIS IS A FIGHT OF SOCIETY FOR FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!

    AND WE WILL WIN!!!!!!!!!!

  43. IN FACT ALL PAJQAR!!!PAJQAR MINCHEV VERCH IS NOT FOR LEVON!!!!

    This was said by a minority — 10s of thousands in Liberty Square and not 100s of thousands — and for Levon. That’s my reading of the situation although I’ll say again, I’d like to see a true pro-democracy movement spring up in Armenia, but it will not be one if led by Levon’s people. It will also be peaceful and based on the language of reconciliation and not division and hatred.

    Anyway, just seen another interesting analysis of the situation and again, pretty much in line with the DPC and TOL one.

    Not uncommon in the Caucasus, the context of this election is far from simple, in part due to the background of the candidates. Armenia has endured long standing economic and political problems, including endemic corruption and a lack of public trust in the government. Public discontent with the economy stems from unemployment and a rising currency value that has not made staple goods more affordable due to the continued presence of import monopolies. Disillusion has grown with the government because of its failure to address these issues and the perception that parliament members are more focused on personal gain rather than the public interest. The perpetuation of a frozen conflict over the Nagorno-Karabakh region, which has prevented improvement in relations with Azerbaijan and Turkey, looms over the country’s domestic problems and remains unresolved by previous administrations.

    This situation has exacerbated bitterness on the opposition side as many were expecting a change in political leadership, voting against current problems that have been associated with president Kocharan’s administration and arguing for reforms in the electoral process. Mr. Sarkisian is not viewed with much higher regard. Unfortunately, Levon Ter-Petrosian is no reformer himself and is not a newcomer to the political machine in Yerevan. He served as the country’s first elected president demonstrating little success in addressing the same domestic issues while in office. This explains why analysts say his calls for reforms to the electoral process—after claiming the recent election a fraud—ring of hypocrisy. Mr. Ter-Petrosian is widely considered to have rigged the 1996 election, due to voting irregularities that took place at the time, and is remembered for ordering tanks onto the streets of Yerevan to quell subsequent protests. In this context, February appears to be a case of history repeating itself. Thus far, the situation in Armenia has yielded no clear heroes for the democratic process on either side of the political divide, nor validity to either claim.

    http://www.diplomaticourier.org/web_feature_163_Armenia_state_emergency_political_instability_elections.html

    Anyway, the analysis points to 9 April to being the next potential flash point which will determine whether this is over or not. I’d agree although I don’t know what will be.

  44. Yervandoglu,

    You are very frustrated at waging a LOSING fight. Your hopes are up now they are dashed.

    You will not win. You are losing day by day.

  45. i am sorry that from all mottos of freedom square you ahve heard only levon levon and missed many others like azatutyu! azat ankax hayastan!!!!!! in fact your only argument again is that you do not accept devil even he is elected via free elections..opposing to your own statement that you agree!!!!!!

    this is what i was trying to prove you and other people here that you are just pretending you are playing democracy and independence but infact you are not!!!!

    good luck and be raedy to live in FREE ARMENIA SOON!!!!!!!!!!!! were not only you but anyone will be able speak freely and wa;k freely on the streets!!!!!!!!

  46. and yes you are absolutely right by arresting people who just pass by the nothern avenue police is working for us by including more and more people in our fight for freedom!!!!!!!!!
    AND indeed movement is getting more and more stronger day by day!!!!!!!!

    HAXTANAK!!!!!!!!!!!

  47. how can one make honest estimation????????

    ure still not getting the point- there was no election that took place on FEB 19 th! IT WAS MASS TERROR ON PEOPLES WILL!

    HOW CAN ONE AFTYER THAT ASK ANYONE about his “honest estimation”

    THIS IS MORE THAN ABSURD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    GOOD LUCK WITH YOU honest estimations of how many peple voted for whom!!!!

    GOOD LUCK!!!!!!

  48. I only ask, because you seem so sure of everything.

    You talk about the will of the people. I think the payqar payqar drivel is hijacking of democratic will. I think most Armenians interested in democratic elections voted for Serj, Levon, Artur, etc. Many may have voted for any one of the 3 to prevent one of the others from coming to power…that is natural in elections, anyway.

    Most of them are not interested in the path chosen by the tiny minority out on the streets fawning over LTP or Pashinyan’s hate-speeches.

    Let’s not mix issues. Why shouldn’t people fight from within (as well) for these noble causes?

    And THE ALL CAPS touch is effective when used sparingly, NOT WHEN IT IS USED SENTENCE AFTER SENTENCE AFTER SENTENCE MINCHEV VERCH..

  49. >>>>Most of them are not interested in the path chosen by the tiny minority out on the streets fawning over LTP or Pashinyan’s hate-speeches.>>>>

    SO YOU KNOW THE NUMBERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!

  50. URE JUST BULL SHITING HERE!!!!!!!!!!

    GOOD LUCK TO YOUR fight from within (as well) for these noble causes?

    I am just wondering what are those noble causes for YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????

    KEEP PLAYING DMOCRACY FROM WITHIN ON THIS BLOG!!!!!!!!!!!

  51. >>>>Most of them are not interested in the path chosen by the tiny minority out on the streets fawning over LTP or Pashinyan’s hate-speeches.<<<

    HOW DIFFERENT IS THIS OPINION FROM SERZ AND ROBERT OPINION???!!!!!!!

    ON THE STREETS ARE BOMZS AND THEY ARE MINORITY!!!!!!!!!

    you proved who you are!!!!

    THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

  52. <<>>

    YES THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE IS TO LIVE IN A FREE FREE FREE and DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY!!!!

    TO HAVE FREEDOM SQUARE FREE OF POLICE AND MILITARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    FREEDOM THATS WHAT WE WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  53. AND ANYONE WHO DOESNT WANT FREEDOM CAN NOT BE SERIOUS WHEN HE IS TALKING ABOUT DEMOCRACY!!!!!!!!!!!

  54. Yervand, your sense of logic, which is that anyone who doesn’t openly support Levon Ter-Petrossian is against freedom, leaves a lot to be desired. Your right to choose who you want to support, but again testimony to the undemocratic nature of a minority who have to accuse others of somehow being against freedom when their views don’t coincide with yours. It is our right to freedom of opinion and speech to hold our own views which might conflict with yours. Freedom is about all of us being able to speak openly without threat of attack, accusation and intimidation.

    And yes, I’d suggest you check out your CAPS LOCK in future because it pretty much is the Internet equivalent of shouting and screaming and which makes you come across as a fanatic. Sorry, but that’s how it seems.

  55. again, you either pretend or you indeed do not get the sense of logic in my words!

    its not about LEVON NOT!!!!!!!

    what has levon to do with the people being detained on the street with no reason and then released by police???!!!!!!

    again you claim: undemocratic nature of a minority, how do you know who is majority and who is minority! having this estimation as a basis for all of your speculations how can you are a proponent of democracy and freedom??? (note : I dont care if youare for or aginst serz or levon iam just wondering why are you so convinced that you know who is majority and who is in minority? WHY do you need then free elections, if you already know!!!! I thought free elections purpose is actually to know who is majority!!!!).

  56. Troubled Armenia (The Economist)
    Protests continued

    Mar 27th 2008 YEREVAN
    From The Economist print edition

    Armenia is still teetering, and war clouds are gathering

    IN HIS Easter service Karekin II, spiritual leader of Armenian Christians, exhorted his congregation to be “one flock, with one shepherd”. For diplomats present the prelate’s words were laced with meaning. Might he be urging Armenians to rally behind the president-elect, Serzh Sarkisian?

    Over a month after Mr Sarkisian, the prime minister, declared victory in the February 19th presidential election, his future is uncertain. Trouble began when thousands of protesters led by his rival, Levon Ter-Petrosian, took to the streets, claiming that Mr Sarkisian stole the vote. The protests turned bloody when eight people were killed on March 1st. Emergency rule was imposed, although it was lifted as promised on March 21st. But later that day hundreds of riot police intervened when a largely female crowd tried to hold a vigil in memory of the dead.

    Opposition supporters are being arrested in droves. One activist alleged that his car was torched because he backed a pro-opposition news channel, Gala. A hastily crafted law to bar political gatherings has been approved by parliament. Such tactics are calculated to stifle opposition for good. But can they?

    Some Western diplomats fret that Armenia’s strife might tempt a bellicose Azerbaijan to try and regain control of the disputed enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh. The Azeris are said to be spooked by Kosovo’s successful campaign for independence and fear that Nagorno-Karabakh might win international recognition. Ominously, Azerbaijan threatened to pull out of international peace talks after America, Russia and France voted against a UN resolution calling for the withdrawal of Armenian forces from Nagorno-Karabakh and the surrounding region. This follows some of the deadliest border skirmishes between Azeri and Armenian forces in years.

    Mr Sarkisian is due to be sworn in on April 9th. He “needs to win the confidence of the Armenian people, so that we may unite before this threat [from Azerbaijan],” says one official. The surest way to do that would be to order an independent investigation of the March 1st events, declare an amnesty for recent political detainees, and form a cabinet untainted by graft, suggests Anahit Bakshian, an opposition member of parliament.

    The Americans are threatening to freeze millions of dollars in aid. Armenia should “pull itself together and get back on a democratic path,” says Dan Fried, of the State Department. Or Armenia “may go the Belarus way,” says Mrs Bakshian. Yet few believe that this is what Mr Sarkisian would choose. Although a nationalist and no liberal, he has presided over record growth and a sharp reduction in poverty. A chess player and veteran of the Karabakh war in the 1990s, Mr Sarkisian has kept close ties with Russia even as he has courted the West.

    Mikhail Baghdassarov, a businessman and ally of Mr Sarkisian, believes he will usher in young Western-trained technocrats and make the market-friendly governor of the central bank, Tigran Sarkisian, prime minister. Mr Ter-Petrosian vows to keep his supporters on the streets until the election is overturned. There is a whiff of revenge about his campaign, but his fiery talk of justice and freedom has inspired Armenians. “Until this election I wasn’t interested in politics. Levon gave us the feeling that we can shape our own destiny,” says a young Armenian painter. “No amount of repression can take that feeling away.”

  57. what has levon to do with the people being detained on the street with no reason and then released by police???!!!!!!

    Because these protests on the streets are organized by pro-Levon supporters. I also suspect that they are designed to achieve two things. Firstly, to test the water to stage another attempt at a colored revolution and secondly, to create tensions and provoke clashes.

    again you claim: undemocratic nature of a minority, how do you know who is majority and who is minority!

    Because Yerevan is a city of 1 million or whatever and Armenia a country of anywhere between 2.5 and 3.2 million. Yet protest demonstrations staged by Levon averaged 15-20,000 before the election and 20-30,000 after the election.

    Since the state of emergency, however, the first rally billed as being in memory of the dead, but actually staged in support for Ter-Petrossian’s people under arrest, attracted 1-2,000 people. Since then, actions have attracted less than 100 people at a time. Interestingly, when confronted by police, many of them burst into shouts of “Levon” before being told to keep quiet by those wanting to make it seem as though the actions are pro-democracy rather than pro-Levon.

    Regardless, from what I see on the streets and from speaking to a wide variety of people of all ages, including students, there is no momentum in the pro-Levon campaign. Indeed, I have even encountered students who are now openly supportive of the government because of dislike for what the radical opposition is attempting now.

    Anyway, interesting article in The Economist, likely penned by Amberin Zaman, The Economist’s correspondent who covers Armenia as well as Turkey, Georgia etc. What makes it more interesting perhaps, is that Amberin is the Turkish wife of the Charge d’Affairs at the U.S. Embassy in Yerevan, Joseph Pennington.

    Would be interesting to know if this article is therefore also based on the albeit private post-election position towards Armenia by the U.S. State Department. Anyway, I personally consider the last quote somewhat unrepresentative of “Armenians” as Zaman writes. Nevertheless, it’s an important piece for the opposition as it will be read by decision-makers throughout the world.

  58. Because these protests on the streets are organized by pro-Levon supporters.

    – Since when you consider freely walking on the street being a protest and something that is supposed to be out of order?!

    Yet protest demonstrations staged by Levon averaged 15-20,000 before the election and 20-30,000 after the election.

    – Why you thnk that you can calculate the supporters of levon by counting the number of the people on the streets at one time?????????? no logic at all!!!!!! if so there are calculations that during the 10 day rally more than one million people attended freedom square!!!!! but as i said one should not make any estimation based on this…the free elections are the way of electing the president!!!!

    AGAIN you are convinced yourself and trying to enforce your opinion about which side being minory or majority having no legal basis (there were no free elections!). (your own observations and conclusions being far from objective!!! there is only one fight for freedom — fight for having free elections!!!)

    I HOPE AND BELEIVE VERY MUCH THAT THE BRIGHT FUTURE OF FREEDOM AND LIBERTY IS NOT FAR AWAY FOR ARMENIA!!!!!!!!!

  59. – Since when you consider freely walking on the street being a protest and something that is supposed to be out of order?!

    Oh, come on. You know what these actions aim to achieve. Don’t give me this walking on the streets bull. It’s a way to try to hold pro-Levon rallies by another name. All those taking part — the few people that there are — are Levon supporters or members of his campaign team.

    if so there are calculations that during the 10 day rally more than one million people attended freedom square!!!!!

    Not at all, because I recognized the same faces time and time again. It’s also been stated that in any pro-democracy post-election period, a candidate robbed of victory would gain more than the numbers assembled than Levon did.

    He knew it, A1 Plus knew it and so did the rest of us which is why they tried to inflate numbers in reports even going so far at one point of claiming 500,000 people were assembled one day. That says it all, I think.

    Besides, we’ve got a handful now although I don’t doubt that with the release of the main leaders, they could probably hold another rally of anywhere between 10-30,000 people. That’s probably why the leaders won’t be released until after 9 April and why pro-Levon civil society is trying so hard to have them released now.

    BTW: It would appear that The Economist article by the U.S. Charge d’Affairs wife is a reflection of Pennington’s and official Washington’s views.

    http://www.armenianow.com/?action=viewArticle&AID=2911&CID=2864&lng=eng&IID=1179#comments

  60. free elections are the way of electing the president!!!!

    Agreed, and also agreed that this was not the case on 19 February 2008 (or in previous elections, in fact).

  61. “It would appear that The Economist article by the U.S. Charge d’Affairs wife is a reflection of Pennington’s and official Washington’s views.”

    Are you sure Pennington’s wife wrote the Armenia article? I had been told by her that she is strictly forbidden to write about anything related to Armeinan politics, maybe a fluff piece if a good one came up but nothing of substance. She is the Turkey correspondant, not the Armenian, and is not able to write the Armenian one. I saw no author’s name attached to the Armenia article but based on what I’ve heard from her (in the past) am going to assume she didn’t write it.

  62. AGAIN you are convinced yourself and trying to enforce your opinion about which side being minory or majority having no legal basis

    Actually, there is a legal basis. The Constitutional Court ruling although I happen to disagree with it, but ultimately, as the highest court in the land it effectively legally and constitutionally endorses the number of votes cast. Primarily, however, this appears to be because as in 1996 — and this is the argument Levon used to justify his re-election then when asked by reporters at the beginning of the year — not enough evidence was provided to back up claims of widespread falsification.

    Like it or not, that’s the legal basis and while the amount of video evidence of ballot box stuffing and violence was unparalleled this time round, there was not enough of it. For future elections there needs to be more of this and also more civic education among voters. However, we desperately need a more representative parliament (in order to also make up more representative election commissions) as well.

    Democracy is not just about election day or even pre-election campaigns, its more about a holistic approach to democracy in all areas of life and rather than focus on another attempt at a colored revolution in support of a candidate (Levon) who really didn’t win in the first round either, I would suggest people start concentrating on that.

    And not 6 months before the next elections when US and other foreign money floods in for the same old names to use in support of their given candidates. It should happen now — not in support of any political grouping, but to strengthen the institutions which should form checks and balances as well as raise awareness among the electorate as well.

    Democracy is in its infancy here, is facing a crisis (although the election appeared better than in 2003), and is representing a test. It remains to be seen whether the challenges can be approached and resolved, but I don’t consider the pro-Levon campaign as being part of that EXCEPT in so much that it keeps the government on its toes.

  63. Paul, As The Economist’s pieces are always anonymous it’s hard to tell so you may be right, but I’m assuming that she IS allowed to write about local politics here because I asked this question when I was last at their house for dinner. Moreover, Amberin was also at the OSCE/ODIHR/PACE press conference after election day which kind of implies that she was covering the election. Anyway, I’ll email or ring her and ask.

  64. She is the Turkey correspondant, not the Armenian

    Sorry, that’s not what I’ve been told. There is no Armenian correspondent and its based on the region although RFE/RL’s Emil Danielyan writes for The Economist’s Intelligence Unit. Anyway, I’ll check to make sure and when I hear, I’ll let you know.

  65. Of course, it’s also possible that someone else wrote it. I was told recently that Richard Giragossian also writes for The Economist which is even more problematic given that his wife is a Sksela activist reportedly involved in organizing the tent protests by Levon’s supporters in Liberty Square.

  66. yervand, if it is not about levon then why people are screaming levon levon?

    Your words about democratically elected devil is preferable than a saint elected by fraud already says everything about you.

    Should I mention about Hitler and the German nation that has elected him to be their leader? Or maybe I should mention Lenin who led many nations to nowhere?

    Levon was doing the same thing by misleading our nation to nowhere. The only difference is that Germans and other nations didn’t know Hitler and Lenin before they came to the power. We experienced levon already once, NO SECOND CHANCE!

    levon lost thanks god but part of his plan to divide Armenia and Armenians worked. Now we have to find ways to clean the mess he left after his evil campaign.

  67. if before people could be chased, attacked and shot at by police and special forces. Now you can just get arrested while walking in the streets of Yerevan.
    Or maybe this is just to show the the Northern Avenue belonges only to the so called elitar (elite) people.

    This is a state terror againts the population or maybe the opposit, the state is in terror. If they are taking to such drastic actions then they realise that they are in a big trouble.
    No justifications are acceptable. I am surprised that this can even become a topic for discussion.

  68. haikN don’t talk in the name of the people. Talk in the name of LTP supporters who are provoking the police, and I’m glad they are sent to detention. These are the last hopes of a dying movement. I tell you frm now :

    Ararat Zurapyan,Alik Arzumanian, Nikol Pashinyan, Aram Karapetyan Myasnik Malxasian ,Gago Jhankirian,Hakob Hakobian, Khachik Sukyasian and about 20 other criminals will get about 5 to 7 years in prison.

    The rest will live in freedom, if they agree that disturbing the stability of Armenia is a crime.

  69. Onnik lives in Yerevan, is a reporter but relies on Internet for news instead of getting out of his home. see his March 27, 2008 at 7:07 pm comment above.

    Additionally he calls himself a reporter but was scared to come out of his home on March 1st to report the events.

    He lives in a virtual world hence the reason of his clueless “analitical” comments.
    Get out of your home, open your eyes and try to realise that you are living in a faschism.

  70. haikN,

    you live in a virtual world ,axchi jan. You, your mother, Levon, Nikol and rest of the nation’s takank.

    So what’s the matter? I don’t hear 10 more days, 5 more days, 2 more days, anymore? What happened to Levon’s promises?I thought we were gonna live in a better country after February 20th. He is breaking his promise.

    On Serge’s inauguration day at Liberty Square we will step on the ground where Levon’s revolution is buried. And guess what…He or you cannot do ANYTHING about it. Never again.

    Anyone who’s a Levon supporter is anti-Armenian even if you’re born in Yerevan. Ay qez ban..

  71. Haikn – Forget what Onnik does during his time. How is this relevant?

    He wasn’t exhorting people to march in the streets and push them to arm themselves and dig in WHILE WARM AND SAFE IN HIS HOUSE on March 1.

    Shame on you LTP. Demagogue revanchist who once again is most definitely NOT with the people, even the couple of thousand minority that he pushed to violence.

  72. HaikN, man, words fail me for what you are. I don’t rely on the Internet for my news, but like most people I am not everywhere at the same time. And I was there on 1st March at the French Embassy although not at the beginning because I was looking after my son. And you know I’ve been at most of the Levon rallies. Sure, I wasn’t there when the rioting and looting started later in the evening but why should I be?

    But really, you really are low. Really a good example of the types of political fanatics that always have to get personal and resort to mud-slinging because you can’t argue your case. From 2.30pm to 7pm I was there in among the opposition protesters on 1 March unlike many other photographers who receive funding (I wasn’t on commission for the whole of the election but covered as much as I could).

    And do you really think that any of the other photographers put their necks on the line for Levon? Apart from those working for publications linked to him, those that did cover it did so because they were paid and more than that, through windows overlooking the action. A few exceptions — the NYT guy who got in there among the action.

    If I had covered the violence on the streets itself, I would have had to be in amongst it too — in among the protesters and also between them and the police because that’s my style of working (not shooting from above and a window). Sorry, but I wasn’t going to put my neck on the line to cover a story like that for my blog and why should I?

    But you. Really, you sink to such low levels for your King. I’ve covered as much as humanly possible while also working two jobs at the same time and you dare to criticize from afar? You represent all that’s wrong with the mentality behind Levon. And I saw it that day outside of the French Embassy. Loads of young men yielding metal poles looking eagerly for a chance to use them.

    Sorry, in this case, why on earth should I be there?

    And Observer, it really is about time you put HaikN on moderation. What’s going through your head allowing personal attacks on people in your blog? Really, you need to sort this out because it amazes me that you’re allowing it to continue.

  73. Oh, and one more thing, HaikN, I covered one of the Northern Avenue protests and even confronted the police and refused to obey their instructions to stop taking photos.

    And what’s your problem? That I don’t run down to see a few dozen of Levon’s minions agitate for another repetition of 1 March? Sorry, one is enough for me, and like I said, as it was not for a commissioned story or a publication, I think I actually deserve credit for doing that.

    Anyway, stop making it personal although on the other hand, why not continue. I mean, you just show Levon’s movement up for what it is. It’s why most of the population would not join it.

    And when I read people like you I have to say thank God and roll on the day when we have a real pro-democracy movement in Armenia and not the charlatans and cynics that we had running in the top three positions for this one.

    Meanwhile, Observer, I say again, it’s about time you put HaikN and others like him on moderation as they have shown themselves unable to engage in reasoned discussion and debate. Enough is enough.

  74. Opposition Protests, State of Emergency Declared
    http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/02/opposition-protests-state-of-emergency-declared/

    Opposition Demonstration Dispersed
    http://blog.oneworld.am/2008/03/23/demonstration-dispersed/

    And all the work I did VOLUNTARILY (Last year I covered the parliamentary election for EurasiaNet, but not this time round — glad to be honest given they are OSI) for this election IN ADDITION to working TWO jobs to support my own personal projects because civil society and the funding bodies are rotten to the core are at:

    http://blog.oneworld.am/index.php#photojournalism

    And you have the audacity to say I did nothing or didn’t get out of my home? And those thumbnails to galleries are only SOME of the thousands of photos I took. And man, were Levon’s meetings boring yet I stuck them out.

  75. On a related note, perhaps now is the right time to draw people’s attention to Vahan Ishkhanyan’s article on the mentality behind Ter-Petrossian’s movement.

    “For the first time in my life I did not say I am Karabakhtsi [Karabakh Armenian]. They asked me where I am from, I told from Abovyan,” ArmeniaNow photographer Anahit Hayrapetyan tells about how every photographer and journalist in the neighborhood of the Myaskinyan monument on March 1 was asked about their descent in a fierce search for Karabakhtsis.

    Disinformation was spread that the troops that dispersed the sitting strike in the Liberty Square spoke the Karabakh dialect.
    But it was not an occasional matter: it was the expression of xenophobia generated by LTP’s movement, whose number one enemy turned to be the Karabakhtsis.

    […]

    Enmity was the main weapon of the leader for five months, when he stated the only mistake of the years of his rule was bringing the two politicians from Karabakh, the only thing he apologized for (he even defended the clan system he created by saying the 1995 Constitution was better than the amendments adopted in 2005); he declared all the deficiencies in Armenia originated in 1998, he refuted there were election frauds and state robbery before that, presenting the years of his rule as ideal times. For a protesting crowd the words of the charismatic leader were unquestionable and undisputed truth.

    Explaining the problems of the state with persons alone and blaming those persons in deadly sins (perpetrating the October 27 assassinations to cede Meghri), he inspired faith in the mass. They believed ‘go till the end’, and also made keeping power a matter of personal security for Sargsyan and Kocharyan.

    LTP and his supporters increased the number of their voters by growing the hostile rhetoric of the campaign. LTP stated Serzh and Robert have served the Turks with servility for a long time. On the other side he called traitors and scum all those who did not join him and instead of opening cracks among the authorities, as he said, created deep breach of enmity in the society: if the leader calls somebody a traitor the mass is ready to destroy. (In the newspaper “168 Hours” singer Shushan Petrosyan told with horror she received letters that called her a traitor for supporting Serzh Sargsyan and threatened to kill her children; she said she did not take her son to school for two weeks because in fear of the threats. And the post-election demonstrations that passed by Vazgen Manukyan’s office scanned ‘Vazgen – a traitor!’, because their leader had stated so.)

    […]

    LTP was a version of the acting authorities ambushed behind the status of opposition, who having stated he is a tool to change the power turned the mob filled with hatred into a tool to provide the comeback of the old clans to power. Having cited the ‘Let there be no other sacrifice but me’, he sacrificed others, safe in his castle himself, with the coming threat hanging in the air ordered the demonstrators to stay and called for arms and resistance through his comrade-in-arms Pashinyan to hang another deadly sin to the authorities – shooting on people.

    The system in ambush manifested itself not in words, but in deeds as it distributed bribes to voters and commissions and resorted to violence on election day equally with the authorities (a week ago head of LTP’s Ani headquarters was sentenced to 7 years in prison for beating Serzh’s representative). And LTP who declared himself a president elect in the first run even before the ballot boxes were opened, revealed the fight to follow would not be for justice, confusing the growing mass.

    HaikN, your words show that Ter-Petrossian’s campaign had no substance and all he could do was get his supporters to hate and get ready to fight. For what, however, remains debatable.

  76. Onnik,

    It is getting kind of confusing for me. It seems that now you mainly write stuff against Levon and etc, which is fine with me, because I wouldn’t want to see him coming out of this as a hero. But how about criticizing the current regime at the same time as well? Is there nothing to be said about these guys?

    Maybe you want to spend your efforts on cooling down as many angry souls as possible, it is your choice obviously. But I like your analysis, as many do, and I would like to read your criticism of the whole situation not only Levon. Maybe I have only seen the stuff you put out that was against Levon.

    Also, Onnik, you got to learn how to avoid personal attacks. You chose this life for you and it comes with loads of personal attacks. Many people out there far away from the country rely on people like you for an accurate analysis of the life in Armenia, and your work is highly appreciated.

  77. Grigor – Why are you trying to “keep score”? Anyway Onnik’s writings are not so much as against Levon as they are trying to paint a picture of the reality on the ground. If LTP revved up followers to dig in, arm themselves and fight to the end, how is this against (or for??) LTP. I forgot to add that LTP was not even there at the critical moment, ready to sacrifice his people (again) for his “cause”. Is this critical of LTP?

    Also, just for the record, where do you see Onnik endorsing the authorities? Your comment is at best inaccurate, at worse, an attempt to deceive readers.

    If you want, you can attack me – I do believe that the two sides are not quite symmetrical. I see the movement around LTP as one with an evil purpose (even while many involved at the low level, at least until recently, have honestly good intentions), while the government’s problem is less one of evil and more of semi-competence.

    I hope you are now less confused.

  78. AH,

    criticism isn’t something negative. Criticism usually refers to analysis. I was asking him to analyze both sides not only Levon. That is all. Moreover, there has been so much going on out here and in my personal life that I missed a lot, and I did say in my note that it could be that I just missed the points he made about the current regime.

    Did I say that I think Onnik is pro-government. I didn’t say that, you invented it.

    It is not in my nature to attack anyone especially online. I don’t quite understand why you think that I might want to attack you. People out here really know how to provoke.

    I don’t think there is anything in my post on Onnik that might be insulting or be considered as an attack. I was just asking him for the other side as well. I think many, including me, are getting tired of Levon and his presence and would like to see where Armenia goes from here, and you need professional journalist to concentrate on that. What is said has been said and there is nothing original in claiming that Levon is evil. We all know that by now, and it is the time to get over him and move on. We cannot get stuck with him for decades. If you keep talking about him and his legacy, even if it is all negative, you keep him part of current Armenia. We need to move on and cool heads need to explore our options that circumvent Levon factor.

    Understanding the roots of what happened on March 1st is a good strategy, but even there one needs to analyze the situation without Levon factor. Why is it that people are not satisfied with this government.? In general it is not part of human nature to follow hate language blindly. The roots of that hatred were already in the hearts of the people and Levon exploited it. What one needs is an analysis of the roots of the hatred not how Levon exploited it. The other part is also important but many have been spending their time analyzing it already, and there is just too much of it out there. One shouldn’t try to make the case that one side is evil and the other isn’t. This is not a war between good and evil. It is a war between two HUMAN packs who operate according to various aspects of human nature, what one should do then is to separate this disgusting war from the struggle of the Armenian people and speak the people’s mind leaving the war on the side as something that stands against everything good that people want.

    No, I am pretty much confused. And you should be too. Confusion is what motivates people to solve problems.

  79. Fair enough, and sorry if I put words in your mouth.

    As far as your call to analyze the essence of the problem(s) in Armenia, I for one welcome that.

    Where do we go from here? I think/hope (maybe wishful thinking, but I think we have some grounds to be hopeful) that the next administration will welcome dialogue and broad discussion more so than the previous. I also think/hope that the population will show more activity and constructive dissatisfaction (more urgency and passion than complacency and malaise). In any case, I think there is no place for destructive “let’s tear the whole thing down” as I think change brought about in this fashion brings far more bad than good.

  80. The current regime knows exactly where it wants to go—

    More repression of dissent and consolidation of power…

    Displaying a facade of democracy for all the world to see…

    A false coalition government comprised of bankrupt political parties and their sell-out leaders…

    AND THE RETURN OF KARABAKH AND THE LIBERATED TERRITORIES

    (The following is taken from today’s Armenian Liberty news site)

    The proposed peace deal calls for a gradual settlement of the conflict that would lead to the liberation of virtually all Armenian-controlled Azerbaijani territories around Karabakh and indefinitely postpone agreement on the disputed territory’s status. In a joint statement issued in early March, the Minsk Group co-chairs urged the parties to “redouble their efforts to endorse the Basic Principles … and to begin as soon as possible the process of drafting a peace agreement on this basis.”

    THIS REGIME IS NOT ONLY CORRUPT AND ANTI-DEMOCRATIC…

    BUT IT IS SELLING OUT THE NATION …..TRAITORS TO THE VERY CORE!!!

    THIS IS THE REALITY OF ARMENIA!!!!

    ALL THOSE WHO DON”T UNDERSTAND THIS AND WOULD RATHER SEEK TO DENIGRATE THE OPPOSITION FOR A WHOLE HOST OF REASONS, REAL OR IMAGINED, ARE MERELY SUPPORTING THE STATUS QUO !!!!

    The nation thanks you for the quislings you are!!!!!

  81. The current regime knows exactly where it wants to go—

    More repression of dissent and consolidation of power…

    Displaying a facade of democracy for all the world to see…

    A false coalition government comprised of bankrupt political parties and their sell-out leaders…

    AND THE RETURN OF KARABAKH AND THE LIBERATED TERRITORIES

    (The following is taken from today’s Armenian Liberty news site)

    The proposed peace deal calls for a gradual settlement of the conflict that would lead to the liberation of virtually all Armenian-controlled Azerbaijani territories around Karabakh and indefinitely postpone agreement on the disputed territory’s status. In a joint statement issued in early March, the Minsk Group co-chairs urged the parties to “redouble their efforts to endorse the Basic Principles … and to begin as soon as possible the process of drafting a peace agreement on this basis.”

    THIS REGIME IS NOT ONLY CORRUPT AND ANTI-DEMOCRATIC…

    BUT IT IS SELLING OUT THE NATION …..TRAITORS TO THE VERY CORE!!!

    THIS IS THE REALITY OF ARMENIA!!!!

    ALL THOSE WHO DON”T UNDERSTAND THIS AND WOULD RATHER SEEK TO DENIGRATE THE OPPOSITION FOR A WHOLE HOST OF REASONS, REAL OR IMAGINED, ARE MERELY SUPPORTING THE STATUS QUO !!!!

    The nation thanks you for the quislings you are!!!!!

  82. The opposition is stronger than it has ever been. The more people witness the naked, ugly face of Kocharian’s idea of “government,” the more their resolve grows to proportions that Kocharian can only control through permanent martial law. Eventually, even that will not work.

    The Opposition ought thank Kocharian for all the hard work his pea brain has been doing for it.

    On top of everything else is Kocharian’s lovely, lovely act of putting Ter-Petrossian in virtual house arrest: That’s right, Kocharian, lock an an intelligent scholar up in his library for a month, give him all the time in the world to read and think, to figure out how to do the impossible, all while his base is growing daily right under street, helped generously along by your police force! Absolutely hilarious. Keep tightening those bolts, Kocharian, keep tightening.

    Watching Kocharian is like watching a baboon try to solve a Rubik’s Cube for a bannana: smash it against the wall, then throw it at the zoo goers.

  83. Thanks Lenin from Philadelphia, but I think the only aspect of this neo-Bolshevik “proletariat will rise against the Tsar” stuff that is relevant is that the Opposition may indeed be stronger. Stronger in the sense that I think most level headed Armenians (even the ones with amnesia the past few months) now know that Levon was an empty vessel.

    Armenians have learned that if they want change they will need to work hard for it, and not follow the Pied Piper who had 10 years worth of “all the time to read and think” and re-entered society with only words of hate, racism, and divisiveness.

  84. Mher, negotiations are just that — negotiations. Moreover, Levon’s argument is that Serge and Kocharian are not interested in a settlement and only he can genuinely seek a compromise solution. Certainly, his track record backs that up more than the present government, and I think that talk of Kocharian and Serge being willing to deal is just being used as propaganda. Indeed, it is Ter-Petrossian that has resolution of Karabakh and Armenian-Turkish relations central to his beliefs.

  85. Hey Onnik –

    Enough of your convoluted double-speak. You’re an apologist for the status-quo and a quisling. You’re about as independent a journalist as the Pope is an agnostic.

  86. No, Mher. You just can’t discuss and debate and typical of (in this case) Levon supporters you can only resort to accusations and abuse because you are unable to actually deal rationally, logically or maturely with anything other than partisan pro-Levon propaganda.

    So, I didn’t realize. The Pope is agnostic, huh? ;-)

    Now, I ask Observer once again to put ALL his comments on moderation and prevent the Mhers, Yervands etc from making this personal and disrupting ANY chance for reasoned and mature debate. Otherwise this blog just becomes part of the problem.

  87. How do you reason with a person who says that the killing on 7 civilians doesn’t constitute a massacre?

    Huh??? Onnik jan???

  88. How do you reason with a person who says that the killing on 7 civilians doesn’t constitute a massacre?

    Mher, quite easily, especially when the circumstances of death are not known and both sides were ready and willing to fight.

    Of course, you can try to ask such loaded questions in order to avoid the real issue here — your inability to argue or discuss rationally as well as your interest in disrupting discussion precisely because of that fact.

    It’s why the comments thread on this blog is now totally useless given that it is impossible to carry out a normal and reasonable discussion. On the other hand, it highlights the inability of the radical opposition to argue their case.

    By all means challenge my interpretation of the word “massacre” by providing your own and who knows, you might get me to change my opinion. Or you may not, but the fact is that like Levon Ter-Petrossian there is no interest in arguing for this or that.

    It’s only about appealing to the lowest common denominator which in the case of you guys is blind hatred of anyone that doesn’t pledge total allegiance to their monarch, Levon Ter-Petrossian.

    Ironically, however, all the drama queens on this blog declaring paykar, paykar and attacking anyone who thinks differently than them appear to be based outside Armenia. Typical.

    Besides, none of you have EVER tried to reason (apart from Armen Fildelfatsi in his most recent comments at least) because quite simply you can’t. You can only threaten, curse and intimidate or wish people they don’t like as well as their children were dead.

    Anyway, this blog is now pointless and is sloppy. Quite simply no comments section on any blog that expects to be taken seriously should be allowed to descend to such levels. It’s really about time Observer started to realize that and also that this blog is obliged to function as we expect in the West.

    Simply put, this is a blog hosted by WordPress and I’m getting so tired of Levon’s people abusing the ability to post comments without moderation that I think it’s time for a complaint to the hosting provider. Besides, there is nothing of note or worth usually said in these posts. It’s just stupid, infantile name-calling and bullying tactics.

  89. Incidentally, Observer and I have long spoken about a blogging code of conduct not that there should be one given that it’s common courtesy to behave normally although after reading many of the comments of late, obviously not in political circles in Armenia and the Diaspora.

    However, it’s worth noting how any RESPECTABLE blog deals with comments and these guidelines are pretty much run of the mill and should be adopted on this blog unless it just wants to be a breeding ground for hate and part of the problem in Armenia and Diaspora.

    * Comments on Global Voices are moderated.
    * If your comment does not appear immediately, there is no need to submit it again.
    * Please treat others with respect.
    * Comments containing hate speech, obscenity, and personal attacks will not be approved.

    Another alternative is to allow free commenting after a first comment is initially approved by an administrator, but to INSTANTLY stick a reader on moderation if they abuse that right. Nevertheless, what is important is that NO decent blog allows “hate speech, obscenity, and personal attacks” and ALL worthy of reading expect readers to “treat others with respect.”

    That is obviously not the case on this blog and it’s now time that changed immediately.

  90. from the observer blog:

    Now, I ask Observer once again to put ALL his comments on moderation and prevent the Mhers, Yervands etc from making this personal and disrupting ANY chance for reasoned and mature debate. Otherwise this blog just becomes part of the problem.

    -onik

    I am not so sure that A1+ is part of the solution.

    A1+ seems to me to be part of the problem:

    -reflective

    yes WE (as well as the whole nation) ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM OF SERZ ROBERT ONIK KIRKORIAN AND CO!!!!

  91. Yervand, I honestly have no idea what you are saying. I am sure you “know you will win,” but I am not sure I understand anything else in your statements.

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